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The GOP Tax bill
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:39 am    Post subject: The GOP Tax bill Reply with quote

I was also sure we had a thread on this - but I can't find it, like so many threads we were discussing on before the crash. Ah well. Just start another one. Pale sigh

The essential tradeoff in the Republican tax bill, in one chart

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:42 am    Post subject: Tax Bill Create “Hereditary Aristocracy” for Rich Reply with quote

Rep. Keith Ellison: GOP Tax Bill Would Reorder Society & Create “Hereditary Aristocracy” for Rich



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:49 am    Post subject: What would tax bill mean for Trump? Reply with quote

What would the passage of the tax bill mean for President Trump?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: What Brought Senator Bob Corker To Back GOP Tax Bill? Reply with quote

What Brought Senator Bob Corker To Back GOP Tax Bill?
Senator Bob Corker, R-Tenn., has announced his support for the final version of the GOP bill, but he is seeking answers on a tax provision in the GOP bill.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:46 pm    Post subject: The GOP Tax Plan and Bob Corker Reply with quote

Trump's FBI Speech, the GOP Tax Plan and Bob Corker
Seth takes a closer look at how Republicans are trying to pass their tax plan despite a brewing controversy over a last-minute tax break that could personally enrich GOP lawmakers and President Trump.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject: O'Donnell And Joy Reid Talk The GOP Tax Bill Reply with quote

Lawrence O'Donnell And Joy Reid Talk The GOP Tax Bill
The GOP tax bill will likely be passed including many details that ultimately benefit the rich, and negatively impact the poor and middle class.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:17 am    Post subject: Will The GOP Tax Scam Crash The Economy? Reply with quote

Will The GOP Tax Scam Crash The Economy?


Will The GOP Tax Scam Crash The Economy?
Dec. 21, 2017 3:08 pm
By Thom Hartmann A…

The countries of the world that have the most stable economies and that
suffer from the smallest boom and bust cycles are the countries with the
highest tax rates on the very, very wealthy. The reason for that is that
the government is functioning essentially as a stabilizer, so capitalist
economies, there's just a fundamental truth about them. This is not a
knock on capitalism, it's just the way it is.

Capitalist economies go in cycles of boom and bust. There are big cycles -
what's referred to as the 80-year cycle of major boom and bust - and then
there are smaller cycles which are sometimes referred to as the eight to
ten year cycle of recession. Every roughly eight to ten years there's a
consequential recession.

And so when those depressions and recessions happen, a government that is
well-funded - in other words it has a broad enough and high enough tax
base that the government has resources - that government can spend money
into the recession. They could build new roads, they can do new
construction projects, they can build new sewer systems, they can build
out high-speed Internet infrastructure.

Whatever it may be, that government can spend or for that matter they can
in an extreme case like in the Republican Great Depression, what Franklin
Roosevelt did was he even hired people to do basically scutwork - to plant
trees, to sweep streets - literally. The WPA was hiring people to paint
murals, hired poets to write poetry and do public readings. Not that
that's scutwork, but it's not the kind of thing that traditionally you
think of as government functions.

The reason our government was doing that was because capitalism was in one
of its cyclical failures, one of its cyclical crash modes. And government
at that point needs to step in and stimulate the economy by putting as
much money as possible at the bottom of the economy into the pockets of
working people, which is exactly what FDR did, and it's how we got out of
the Great Depression, between that and World War Two which was the largest
government stimulus in the history of the United States.

Wars are stimulative. It's not a good way to stimulate the economy because
it's not long-term. If you build a hospital it stimulates the economy and
continues for the next 50 years as a great revenue source and healing
source. You build a bomb and it might cost the same as the hospital, but
once you drop that bomb it's gone. The money is gone and the bomb is gone.

So anyhow these cycles of boom and bust are best handled by nations like
the Scandinavian countries, the northern European countries. Germany
during the Great Crash of 2008/2009, one of the biggest institutions in
Germany that got hit was Deutsche Bank but it was mostly because they were
loaning and they were gambling on American derivatives in the American
housing market.

But my point is that those high tax rates - and we haven't seen high tax
rates since the 1980s - I'm talking about over 50% on income over three
million dollars a year, which is what we had in 1920. It's what we had in
1940, 1950, 1960, 1970 and 1980 and we no longer had after 1982.

Top tax rates over 50 percent stabilize the economy. They reduce the
impact of recessions. And sure enough, in 1921 Warren Harding ran on a
campaign of dropping the top tax rate on the richest in America from 91%
down to 25%. He won the election and he dropped the top tax rate.

And what did it do? It started a bubble. It kicked off what we refer to as
the roaring 20s which was pure bubble fueled by rich people. It was a
speculative stock and real estate bubble and that bubble burst. It started
bursting in Florida in early 1928 and by the end of 1929 that property
bubble had reached all the way to New York City and it took down the stock

And it was all fueled by the tax cut of 1921. So we saw that happening and
for the next 30 years, literally for the next 30 years - arguably the next
40 years - no Republican was stupid enough to say, "we need to do what
Harding did, let's create another Great Depression" until Reagan came

And Reagan passed two big tax cuts in '82 and '86 - the first one dropped
the top tax rate from 74% to 50%, the second one dropped it from 50% down
to 25% and those two tax cuts then led to, in 1987, the biggest crash in
the history of the stock market with the single exception of 1929.

Now the crash didn't last more than a few days - the really severe part of
it - and the consequences of it, it was about a year long pain. But it
wasn't just the crash.

The other thing that happened was that the growth of the middle class -
the bottom 60 percent of Americans in terms of wages and wealth - was
faster in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s than any time in the history of
America, and the growth of the middle class was growing in wealth and
income faster in the 50s 60s 70s up until the 1980s than the top 40%.

And this is no secret. Any economist can tell you this. High tax rates,
high economic growth. Low tax rates, what happens? The country encounters
a rough patch and what do we do? We have to stimulate the economy with
debt. So now we're 20 trillion dollars in debt.

So you had the big tax cut of '21 led to the crash of '29, the big tax
cuts of '81 and '86 led to the Great Crash of '87, the big cut of 2002 -
George W Bush's - led to the crash of 2007. Another bubble economy. It was
a real estate bubble just like the one in the roaring 20s.

And so now we get a giant cut tax cut in 2017. What's next?

I'd say another crash.

It just seems like this is what Republicans do. They suck up as much money
as they can for themselves and the donors who own them - the wealthy
clients, the top 1%, the top one thousandth of 1%. Republicans take as
much money out of the economy as they can to give to those people, the
morbidly rich, and then the morbidly rich direct their media empires to
tell us that that stuff falling on our heads is actually rain. It's a
golden shower!

Yes, trickle is trickling down on us. And we know that we're just peons.

So they're playing this game again, right? The Republicans they played
this game in '21, it led to '29, it led to a disaster. They played this
game in 1980 and it led to a disaster. And it flattened the wages of
working people for literally 35 years to this day. And then they played
this game when George W Bush came in and it led to a disaster 2008-2009.

They're doing it again. It is said, "the definition of insanity is doing
the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."
There is going to be a reckoning.

Economically you can ask any rational economist, there will be a
reckoning. But the political question is, who's going to take the blame?
And there is a theory suggesting that what the Republicans are doing is
they're setting up the next crash in anticipation of the Democrats having
political power when the crash happens so that they can blame the whole
thing on the Democrats. They can say, "see?"

Because if the crash happens right after the 2018 election or in 2019 or
right after the 2020 election - and frankly I don't think it's going to
take that long - if the crash happens after that and Democrats have seized
power, the Republicans are going to be saying, "see, look at what the
Democrats did to you!"

We'll see how that works out but I'm just giving you advance warning.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:21 am    Post subject: The Most Frightening Aspect of Trump's Tax Triumph Reply with quote

The Most Frightening Aspect of Trump's Tax Triumph

The lies told by powerful men - and the thanks heaped on the most powerful
man of all - are the language of a dictatorship.


The New Yorker
The Most Frightening Aspect of Trump’s Tax Triumph
By Masha Gessen
12/21/17 12:34 P.M.

Donald Trump has scored a legislative victory with staggering costs. The
price of the tax bill has to be measured not only in the loss American
society will face in the increase in inequality, in the impact on public
health, and the growth of the deficit, but also in the damage to political
culture inflicted by the spectacle of one powerful man after another
telling lies of various sorts.

All along there has been Trump claiming that the bill was a “gift” to
the middle class. That this assertion appears to have no basis in fact has
not affected the President’s statements. The President’s Treasury
Secretary, Steven Mnuchin, maintained that his department had run the
numbers and had shown that the tax bill would pay for itself. It appears
that he lied, not so much about the result of the Treasury’s study but
about the existence of the study itself: the Timesreported last month that
the analysis had not been done.

This was a Trumpian lie, which is distinct from other kinds of political
lying. It might be called a power lie: its purpose is not to convince the
audience of something that isn’t true but to demonstrate the power of
the speaker. Trump tweets blatant lies, repeatedly, to show that he
can—and that by virtue of his bully pulpit, his words, however absurd,
always have consequences. Mnuchin showed that he can do the same thing,
and that he has more power than the opposition.

The bill’s passage occasioned an orgy of false public ritual. It began
when the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, Ben Carson, led the
Cabinet in prayer, which included offering thanks “for a President and
for Cabinet members who are courageous” and “for the unity in Congress
that has presented an opportunity for our economy to expand.” (Not a
single Democrat, in either chamber of Congress, voted in favor of the
bill.) Following the prayer, Trump called on his Vice-President the way a
teacher might cold-call on a pupil. For a full two minutes, Pence
dutifully offered thanks for the President’s “middle-class miracle”;
he said that he was “deeply humbled, as your Vice-President, to be able
to be here.” Trump looked stern as he listened, nodding slightly, his
arms crossed below his chest.

Later in the day, the Republican leaders of both houses of Congress, the
Vice-President, and other Republican politicians gathered at the White
House to offer praise to their leader. Senate Majority Leader Mitch
McConnell, House Speaker Paul Ryan, and others hailed Trump for setting
records in judicial appointments and, now, for passing the tax bill.
Representative Diane Black, of Tennessee, thanked Trump “for allowing us
to have you as our President.” Orrin Hatch, of Utah, who has been in the
Senate for forty years, predicted that the Trump Presidency will be “the
greatest Presidency we have seen not only in generations but maybe
ever.” Pence performed, too, again, addressing Trump: “You will make
America great again.”

Political speeches are rarely occasions for truth-telling. But the good
ones combine a description of shared reality with the expression of a
vision, or with words of celebration. The mediocre ones consist of
platitudes—well-intentioned but lacking the force of inspiration or
recognition. And then there is the genre of the thoroughly insincere
pronouncement that is all empty ritual. This is not normally observed in
countries with functioning democratic institutions, because hollow words
are the very opposite of accountability. These kinds of speeches are
usually given in dictatorships: their intended audience is not the public
but the tyrant. This is what we observed in Washington on Wednesday, and
it’s the scariest part of Trump’s big tax triumph.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:13 am    Post subject: Broken promises Reply with quote

Trump Promised A Tax Cut Aimed At The Middle Class. Looks Like He Missed -- Badly.
[HuffPost] S.V. Date

WASHINGTON ― Donald Trump promised as he ran for president that the middle class would get a “massive” tax cut of 35 percent. After taking office, he promised that cuts would be aimed squarely at the middle class. His top economic aides promised a tax system no less progressive than the one in place today.

With a Republican Congress on the cusp of approving that tax cut legislation, Trump has failed to deliver on all three.

The bill reduces federal taxes by about 10 percent for the middle class, not the promised 35 percent, and only for eight years. What’s more, if the president was aiming to help the middle class, he missed wildly: Federal taxes as a percentage of income will go down most for the wealthiest.

And because the tax cuts for individuals expire after 2025, while the 40 percent reduction in the corporate income tax rate is forever, the end product will be a tax code significantly less progressive than today’s.

“It’s disgusting smash and grab. It’s an all-out looting of America, a wholesale robbery of the middle class,” House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi said at a Tuesday news conference. “The GOP tax scam will go down, again, as one of the worst, most scandalous acts of plutocracy in our history.”

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Thom Hartmann is interesting Reply with quote

Well I felt I was reading the most convoluted economic analysis of all time.....

If it wasn't Christmas Eve, I might spend a little time on it.

This is the first time I have heard that a hospital stimulates an economy. It may pay wages around a town and buy some supplies, but there is no creation of wealth at all.

With huge taxes, how would the computer industry have developed? Ford Motors, Your power company? The company that made your couch?

Poor Thom forgets that something happens between recessions. In the 1920s the roads of the country were paved, the car industry began making enough affordable cars for the middle income people. , the commercial airline industry was begun... and on and on...

I did have a good conversation with a top CPA at breakfast yesterday. I was surprised how she was up on the legislation already. Here in Connecticut we were a great state when I moved here in 1978... Top five....

Then the income taxes started, and spending, and now we are ranked last... #50..

High taxes mean people move away. Corporations too..(GE just left our town because of taxes)
Don't forget, the gazillion dollars American companies are holding overseas are being held back because of high taxes...

Back to our CPA lady... Here in CT the effect of the tax cuts will be positive. In states with low income tax rates or no income taxes she feels will do very well. Overall, she is thrilled with what she sees and feels the country will do just fine.

I'll take the opinion of a seasoned professional CPA who has some of the richest clients in the USA over some columnist without the creds...
Proud Republican Elephant Flying on Magic Carpet
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