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Courtesy, gallantry, "dating" - ROMANCE!
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Angelina



Joined: 09 Dec 2007
Posts: 1845
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:51 am    Post subject: Courtesy, gallantry, "dating" - ROMANCE! Reply with quote

UnMask wrote:
For a while, holding or opening doors for women was out of style, but that is back.

Or holding their chairs while they get seated, helping them with their coats. That is not a bad thing. Feminists protesting simple courtesy and gallantry were being silly. I enjoy those nice little gestures.

I will also hold the door for a person who has difficulties - carrying packages or a baby for example - irrespective of their gender. It's simple courtesy.

Quote:
Dating seems to have disappeared, at least as I knew it. Do young folks 'go steady' anymore? hug

I really don't know. We should ask members who have teen-aged/young adult children, or are young adults themselves.

Maybe you should tell us what "dating" as you knew it is like. In Vietnam we didn't "date" like you do in the US. Or "go steady". We went to duly chaperoned parties. Went to the movies in groups. "Boyfriends" visited us at home, sitting in the living-room, with members of the household going in and out around us, with servants bringing soft drinks. Some couple did "date", i.e. went to a movie, or for tea and ice-cream together, but that was rare, and it usually meant that they were planning to get married, with both sets of parents' approval. When that approval was lacking, it could mean a scandal.

It changed a bit when we came to the USA, or France, either to study, or as refugees after the Fall of Saigon. Young people would adopt the custom of the host country, usually under the disapproving eye of their parents.
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Wildflower



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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Location: Shuttling between France and the US

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:31 am    Post subject: "Dating" in the Vietnam of yesteryear Reply with quote

Angelina wrote:
In Vietnam we didn't "date" like you do in the US. Or "go steady". We went to duly chaperoned parties. Went to the movies in groups. "Boyfriends" visited us at home, sitting in the living-room, with members of the household going in and out around us, with servants bringing soft drinks. Some couple did "date", i.e. went to a movie, or for tea and ice-cream together, but that was rare, and it usually meant that they were planning to get married, with both sets of parents' approval. When that approval was lacking, it could mean a scandal.

Oh Angelina, that is so exactly the way it was!!!

The guys visiting were not necessarily boyfriends, just male friends, all from good families and good education (we usually met them through our families (friends of our brothers, children of our parents' friends) or through our girl friends (brothers of school mates), and at those "duly chaperoned parties" - which were not necessarily chaperoned, mind you. As long as it was at the house of a "good family" (i.e. socially acceptable), it was permissible to go, and the parents of the hosting youngster pretty much left us to our own device.

I remember once, my parents came to pick me up at one of those parties, at about 10 pm (very early, there wasn't any "ambiance" yet), the lights were down, there was a slow playing on the record player. I wasn't even dancing at that point but with the lights muted, the couples holding each other close, and there even was one couple sitting together in ONE arm-chair. Oh you wouldn't believe the scene my mother made once she dragged me off that party and got home. I had practically dishonored the family name by just being there.

Another time, it was day time, a guy friend (not boyfriend) was visiting and we felt like dancing, so we put the music on and danced. My grandmother happened to come out of her room and she was so shocked!! But she didn't say anything. I don't think she reported it to my mother either.

Oh Angelina, thank you for calling back those memories!!!

By the time my sister grew up though (she's 8 years my junior) things had loosened a bit. She also had more freedom of movement than me, with her little "motocyclette" - I had a bicycle for going visiting around the neighborhood, usually with my male cousins, but most of the time I was driven by our chauffeur to wherever I went (school, shopping for books or records). I went to the movies with my girl friends or my male cousins. I don't remember ever having gone to the movies with a boy friend. My sister, though, did have a boyfriend (in one word, as opposed of my boy friends) that my mother disapproved of (his family wasn't upper class enough, though his mother was a well-known writer) and that caused her all sorts of problems.
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Wildflower



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 6752
Location: Shuttling between France and the US

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:54 am    Post subject: Courtesy and gallantry Reply with quote

Angelina wrote:
Or holding their chairs while they get seated, helping them with their coats. That is not a bad thing. Feminists protesting simple courtesy and gallantry were being silly. I enjoy those nice little gestures.

I will also hold the door for a person who has difficulties - carrying packages or a baby for example - irrespective of their gender. It's simple courtesy.

I absolutely agree. Agreement

Like giving up your seat on a bus or in the subway. I accept it gracefully and gratefully when someone does it for me, and when I was more mobile, I would give up mine to someone more handicapped than I was, man or woman in either case.

I once saw a woman berate a guy who offered her his seat on the bus. She went on and on that she wasn't that feeble and handicapped, the guy was terribly embarrassed, and I felt sorry for him. I wasn't as outspoken yet as I am now, or I would have taken that idiot to task. The poor guy meant well, and now there's one less gallant man around. He'll never dare give up his seat again! Which is a pity.

On the opposite side, you have old biddies who demand that you give up your seat to them. I was tackled by such a one once, and the other people on the bus had to come to my defense, "She's handicapped too." That old shrew wasn't that handicapped, in fact, or I would have given her my seat without her asking. Funny that she focused on me insstead of the other people who had seats on the bus. Who were able-bodied, and white.
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RavenStar



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 672
Location: RavenClaw House

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:32 am    Post subject: Dating Reply with quote

Angelina wrote:
Maybe you should tell us what "dating" as you knew it is like.

I'd like to know that too, UnMask.

Wildflower and Angelina, that was fascinating! I mean how it was in the "Vietnam of Yesteryear".
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Asteria



Joined: 11 Oct 2010
Posts: 932
Location: Malfoy Manor

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Dating Reply with quote

RavenStar wrote:
Angelina wrote:
Maybe you should tell us what "dating" as you knew it is like.

I'd like to know that too, UnMask.

Wildflower and Angelina, that was fascinating! I mean how it was in the "Vietnam of Yesteryear".

I wonder if the advent of feminism and the women's liberation movement changed a lot in the "dating culture" between the 1950's and current times?

Who among us is young enough (or has children of dating age) to let us know how it is nowadays?

The notion of "date rape" certainly did NOT exist back then. That was the time when, if a woman was raped, she had "asked for it".

In dating, "necking" was as far as it went for many young people. Though it could go farther, if we go by the fact that there were abortions though it wasn't legal in this country. And before the Pill.

Mmmm. Quite a sociological study to do here. Cultural changes with the evolution of mentalities. Or migration, like in the case of the Vietnamese. Culture change, culture shock.

How is it in Australia, Inkling? How was it when you were in your late teens - early twenties, how is it for the young people now?
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inkling7
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Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:34 pm    Post subject: Dating Reply with quote

Well eldest granddaughter aged. 20 has been with the same young man for a couple of years now but still has plenty of other male friends she socialises with even when her boyfriend isn't around... Home studying for uni degree etc but he knows these other males she mixes with at parties and knows they are only just friends. The relationship seems to be on equal footing most of the time and she doesn't expect him to help her sit down at a table etc she will go through a door before him but will open it herself. However if she is coming home late like she did a couple of nights ago he will go and meet her at the train station and walk home with her for safety.

Back in my misspent youth I remember preferring to sit myself down at a restaurant and open doors for myself most of the time but then the women's liberation movement had started and I wanted to be independent and equal a to of the time and quite often went "Dutch" when out with men but they paid for me a lot of the time. It depeneded how I felt about them and our expectations about the relationship.

A lot of the time now I see relationships which vary due to the ethnic background of the males. Latin men here mostly prefer to pay the bill at a restaurant etc.. I know my other half does and feels very protective of me when we are out... It's a macho thing I think but a lot of other aussie born males are more laid back about it all and just play it all by ear since young aussie females are more independent these days and don't expect to be helped to sit down or have doors opened for them. However they still like to receive flowers etc on special occasions and do like the whole romance thing. super grin
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Last edited by inkling7 on Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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UnMask



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 1489
Location: USA East Coast

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:32 pm    Post subject: Uh oh...... Reply with quote

I had two distinct phases of dating....

Stage one: clueless
I would ask a girl out and generally get turned down. On the occasion I actually went out it would be to a movie. There were some parties off and on where groups of us would gather at someone's home, listen to music, spin the bottle we did a couple of times...
In New York the age for alcohol drinking was 18, so there was a lot of night clubbing from then on.

Stage 2: got the clues...
I visited a friend in Germany and met his very socially sophisticated neighbor. I learned several lessons that really altered my social life.
1. Women were a gift. Treat them accordingly.
2. Treat all girls the same no matter how trendy/ untrendy pretty/plain or what ever.
3. Don't swear too much, never is better....
4. Don't hit on one girl when you are socializing with a group of them for the first time. It will annoy the others. Talk to all of them, don't leave anyone out. Some one might be special, you don't want to miss her.
5. Don't try to kiss a girl on the first date. Hold her arm when crossing streets, and hold the doors.
6. Don't try to kiss her on the second date. Keep the door and street stuff up.
7. On the third date, if you are still having fun, she'll let you know if she likes you.

I had so many interesting and really intelligent girl friends up until the time I selected my wife from the group....
I can hardly wait to teach my grandsons the same lessons! Music
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Wildflower



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:46 pm    Post subject: Dating Reply with quote

Quote:
Young aussie females are more independent these days and don't expect to be helped to sit down or have doors opened for them. However the still like to receive flowers etc on special occasions and do like the whole romance thing.

The opening doors or helping with coats things can go both ways. As I said before, I will hold doors for a man if he's encumbered with packages or children. The flowers, music and romance thing always works! Rose Music Hearts

Being wined and dined works too! wine Pho
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inkling7
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Joined: 01 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:01 am    Post subject: Simple courtesy Reply with quote

Yes and helping people with prams up and down steps where there is no ramp or lift at buildings, train stations and bus stops etc and of course the doors etc. I will also let people with young restless young children go before me at the checkout at supermarkets and also the frail and elderly or handicapped people so they don't have to stand in the queue to pay for their purchases for too long. This naturally goes for people of either sex. super grin

There we have gone off topic again because this is all about consideration and good manners to people in general and not dating rituals..LOL
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sjcuk13



Joined: 12 May 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:10 am    Post subject: Dating in the UK Reply with quote

I was a Child of the 80's, I left school (in the UK we leave school at 16) in the year 2000, for me dating has never really happened, I have had boyfriends and I have had a lot of boy friends. In fact I do live with a male person now just as a housemate (it keep the bills down and), there are some people this clearly bothers but I have given up listening to them he is a good friend and hopefully always will be.
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