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Laurelluin



Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 574
Location: Puget Sound

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: SNATERs who like to read about Snape. Reply with quote

I'd also like to add that liking Snape as a character doesn't necessarily preclude being called a SNATER.

You can enjoy reading the pages and chapters that contain Snape, enjoy discussing Snape online, even enjoy watching Alan Rickman portraying Snape onscreen, and still be a SNATER. Because there are characters that people love to hate. Enjoying a good depiction of a deeply horrible person is part of what makes watching movies and reading books entertaining, IMO. It's when the deeply horrible person you love to hate becomes someone you don't even recognize, because other fans are so eager to justify and excuse all his deeply horrible behavior, that you become a SNATER. It's saying "no wait a minute, I really don't think Snape was bullying Harry because Draco was watching and would have told Lucius that Snape wasn't a real Voldemort supporter anymore" that's Snater.

When you say "No, I don't think that threatening to poison Trevor the toad was good teaching that should have put some spine into Neville, nor do I think that Snape did that to see if Trevor was an animagus, nor do I think that Snape did that to prepare Neville to someday fight and kill Nagini," you're a SNATER.

When you think that the way Snape treated Hermione when Draco hexed her teeth so that they grew down past her collar and still hadn't stopped was just plain cruel, you're a Snater. Because Snape's rabid fans view that as Snape being perfectly fair and balanced, because there was no difference between Harry hexing one of Draco's friends and Draco hexing Hermione. Never mind that Harry was given detention, Draco was sent back into the classroom, and Draco's crony--forgive me, I don't remember whether it was Crabbe or Goyle--was sent to the hospital wing while Hermione was told "I see no difference." No, Snape was being far more fair and balanced as a Head of House than McGonagall was to have given Harry a broom so he could be a Keeper in First Year.

These are just a few examples of Snape fan theories that seem off-the-wall to me, but arguing against them makes me a SNATER. Because Snapefen know that everything Snape did from the moment he said "anything" to Albus Dumbledore was 100% good, pure, shiny, and excellent. That he did it all for very good and noble and pure reasons. That his reason was Love Of Lily, and that makes all Snape's actions as pure and shiny as his Patronus, the Silver Doe.
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Muggle_Magic



Joined: 04 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Snaters Reply with quote

Laurelluin wrote:
No, Snape was being far more fair and balanced as a Head of House than McGonagall was to have given Harry a broom so he could be a Keeper in First Year.

Small thing, and off-topic but sorry as Quidditch Captain I can't let it go. Harry was never a Keeper, he was a Seeker.

Re: the Hermione incident, some people thought it "funny", Rolling Eyes including a member of this site who has since dropped out. Number 8 on CoS, he had a Battlestar Galactica username here.

Other than that, I apologize for blundering in, don't wanna join a discussion about Snape. Though I guess that generally speaking you could consider me a Snater. Coz, gimme a break, but "terrible childhood" making it ok to become a Death Eater? If every child wandering about in ill-fitting clothes sneaking up on little girls he has a crush on ended up joining a terrorist, mass-murdering outfit, the world would be a sorrier place than it already is. Pale sigh
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RavenStar



Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Snape Reply with quote

Kerowyn wrote:
What do you consider "terrible" in his childhood? confused

Having to flee the house because one's parents are arguing (and IIRC we read about ONE argument - it's left to the reader to infer that it is an ongoing or recurring situation) is not a good way to grow up, that's true. But IMO, Severus (and for that matter Tom Riddle) had it much better than Harry had.

Agreement

There are some pretty good fan fics (including a story that CoS's Vampiric Duck posted in the Advent Calendar some years ago, where indeed little Severus suffers from hearing his parents screaming at each other all the time,) where Snape's early life was not the happiest ever. I don't remember anything about it in JKR's books, but it's been so long since I've read the HP books that I couldn't swear to it. As I recall the image I retain from reading way back when, Severus was a lonely child, his parents were poor, couldn't afford the latest fashions in clothes for him. He went sneaking about, looking on Lily and Petunia, and was not above playing magic tricks on the Muggle girl. Nothing sticks in my mind that says he was unhappy per se, or unloved, abused or whatever. Confused
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Laurelluin



Joined: 04 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Snaters Reply with quote

Muggle_Magic wrote:
Laurelluin wrote:
No, Snape was being far more fair and balanced as a Head of House than McGonagall was to have given Harry a broom so he could be a Keeper in First Year.

Small thing, and off-topic but sorry as Quidditch Captain I can't let it go. Harry was never a Keeper, he was a Seeker.


Yeah, you'll have to forgive me for that one. I was under the deadline for computer time, with the clock blinking at me YOU HAVE LESS THAN ONE MINUTE BEFORE THIS COMPUTER SHUTS DOWN, SAVE YOUR WORK NOW OR YOU WILL LOSE IT!!

If I'd had time to edit, I'd probably have caught that error and fixed it. Embarassed Sorry 'bout that, my bad.

Quote:
Re: the Hermione incident, some people thought it "funny", Rolling Eyes including a member of this site who has since dropped out. Number 8 on CoS, he had a Battlestar Galactica username here.


I don't think it was at all funny. I can remember being an awkward little 13-14 year old girl and thinking my teeth were horrendously ugly, and if a teacher had said anything about them I'd have probably run away crying too. Sad

Quote:
Other than that, I apologize for blundering in, don't wanna join a discussion about Snape. Though I guess that generally speaking you could consider me a Snater. Coz, gimme a break, but "terrible childhood" making it ok to become a Death Eater? If every child wandering about in ill-fitting clothes sneaking up on little girls he has a crush on ended up joining a terrorist, mass-murdering outfit, the world would be a sorrier place than it already is. Pale sigh


Not blundering, and you're certainly welcome to join the discussion as far as I'm concerned. I don't think Snape's childhood was anything to envy, but at least he had his dream of going to Hogwarts where everything would be better. Harry never had that kind of hope; what he had to "look forward to" was more public school in Britain (I know they call it something different there, forgive me but I don't remember and I don't remember the name of the Muggle school he was going to go to either) where he'd have to wear Dudley's old school clothes dyed grey, and being picked on by Dudley and his Smeltings buddies every summer for the next seven years. So no, I don't see where Severus' sad and sorry childhood guaranteed him growing up to be a bullying teacher at best. And I definitely don't see what DNA had to do with it. confused
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Strawberry07



Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: SNATERs who like to read about Snape. Reply with quote

Laurelluin wrote:
I'd also like to add that liking Snape as a character doesn't necessarily preclude being called a SNATER.

You can enjoy reading the pages and chapters that contain Snape, enjoy discussing Snape online, even enjoy watching Alan Rickman portraying Snape onscreen, and still be a SNATER. Because there are characters that people love to hate. Enjoying a good depiction of a deeply horrible person is part of what makes watching movies and reading books entertaining, IMO. It's when the deeply horrible person you love to hate becomes someone you don't even recognize, because other fans are so eager to justify and excuse all his deeply horrible behavior, that you become a SNATER.


Yeah, I think that horrible characters add to stories. There wouldn't be much of a story if all the characters were decent human beings. However, there's squeeing and making excuses for horrible characters, which is totally missing the point.


Quote:
It's saying "no wait a minute, I really don't think Snape was bullying Harry because Draco was watching and would have told Lucius that Snape wasn't a real Voldemort supporter anymore" that's Snater.

When you say "No, I don't think that threatening to poison Trevor the toad was good teaching that should have put some spine into Neville, nor do I think that Snape did that to see if Trevor was an animagus, nor do I think that Snape did that to prepare Neville to someday fight and kill Nagini," you're a SNATER.



Yeah, how dare we suggest that Snape's actions didn't always have good motivations. We must be Snaters if we think Snape did something wrong and that there's no excuse for it.

Quote:
These are just a few examples of Snape fan theories that seem off-the-wall to me, but arguing against them makes me a SNATER. Because Snapefen know that everything Snape did from the moment he said "anything" to Albus Dumbledore was 100% good, pure, shiny, and excellent. That he did it all for very good and noble and pure reasons. That his reason was Love Of Lily, and that makes all Snape's actions as pure and shiny as his Patronus, the Silver Doe.


Pretty much. If you don't believe that "but Snape loved Lily" is a debate-ending rebuttal to any criticism of Snape, then you're a Snater. If you don't think that "Snape loved Lily" is justification for bullying Harry, then you're a Snater. If you don't think that Snape made many mistakes, even after "anything", then you're a Snater who doesn't appreciate the amazing awesome love that Snape had for Lily. Rolling Eyes

Never mind that they're treating it as though Snape was the only character ever to love anyone. Lots of characters loved someone. Voldemort was the only one who didn't. Harry loved his friends and his family - do we get to say that as an answer to every criticism of Harry? Sirius loved Lily, James, Harry, Remus - do we get to use that as an answer to every criticism of Sirius?


Quote:

Other than that, I apologize for blundering in, don't wanna join a discussion about Snape. Though I guess that generally speaking you could consider me a Snater. Coz, gimme a break, but "terrible childhood" making it ok to become a Death Eater? If every child wandering about in ill-fitting clothes sneaking up on little girls he has a crush on ended up joining a terrorist, mass-murdering outfit, the world would be a sorrier place than it already is. Pale sigh


Muggle_Magic, this exactly. A violent criminal has had a sad past and we should feel sorry for him and disregard completely the victims of his crimes? Um, no. Do we feel sorry for the lowlives who go on shooting sprees because they've got problems? I don't think so.


RavenStar, I think childSnape said that his parents argued a lot, and that his father didn't seem to like anything much. However, this doesn't mean that his parents/father were abusive, just that they argued a lot. And it sounds like Snape ended up "not liking anything much" either. Even Lily, whom he claimed to love - he was more obsessed with her than anything, and he loved an image of Lily, not Lily herself.


Laurelluin, I would have felt exactly the same as a teenager if a teacher had mocked my appearance. That thing with Hermione's teeth is an example of the hypocrisy and lack of empathy in Snape - he was hurt when people mocked his appearance as a child, but somehow it's fine for him to mock teenagers' appearances now. That goes double for anyone defending that bit of nastiness - they castigate the Marauders for laughing at Snape's appearance, and the current teenagers for calling him greasy, ugly, afraid of shampoo. I see, it's only wrong if Snape's feelings are hurt or Snape is insulted. Hypocrites.


Yeah...Snape knew he had Hogwarts to look forward to. Harry just had- Stonewall, I think - a comprehensive school. Snape knew from childhood that he would be getting away, that he was a wizard. Until he knew he was a wizard, Harry had nothing to look forward to but a school that seemed to have had a reputation for being rough, and then an uncertain future.
And Snape had a friend in Lily, whereas Harry had no friends until Hogwarts.

Then there's the argument that Harry's neglect by the Dursleys seems cartoonish, and Snape's childhood seems more credible, therefore more deserving of sympathy. Which strikes me as just lacking in empathy for someone they don't (over)identify with.. Do they also say that Hermione setting Snape's robes on fire was cartoonish? I don't think so.
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The Shuttle



Joined: 17 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Snaters Reply with quote

It's rather funny to see Inkling7's and Ravenstar's opposing views. For one, Snape's terribly unhappy childhood not only explains but excuses all his later bad deeds, betrayals and crimes, and for the other, apart from wearing cast-offs and having bickering parents, Snape had an almost normal childhood. *shakes head with a smile*

All right, I'm exaggerating but not much.

Now that Frakkinship aka Number 8 has left the site, we don't have any Snape shipper left, it seems. We do have Snape apologists in Inkling7, and a bit in Vanille, but they are in no way as extreme as the Snapefen who post on CoS or upload "Lily and Snape, the perfect couple videos" on YouTube! super grin
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The Shuttle



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Snaters Reply with quote

The Shuttle wrote:
"Lily and Snape, the perfect couple videos" on YouTube! super grin

Like this one. Snaters, either close your eyes or have your barf bags ready! bleh

http://youtu.be/q69ZJkC-JZw


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sjcuk13



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Snater Reply with quote

I will hold my hands up after reading the posts above I can only ever say that I am a Snater.

As a character Snape is fantastic as a person (if he was real) he needs to just grow up and deal with it. I think he has coped with a very difficult childhood well however he could have done a lot better.
As for the fact he was in love, if he was in love he would have seen that his "love" wanted something/someone else. If he loved he no matter how much it hurt he would have let her go to do what she wanted to do. or change his ways and hot hang around with Death Eaters and get a new set of friends.
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Strawberry07



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Snaters Reply with quote

The Shuttle wrote:
It's rather funny to see Inkling7's and Ravenstar's opposing views. For one, Snape's terribly unhappy childhood not only explains but excuses all his later bad deeds, betrayals and crimes, and for the other, apart from wearing cast-offs and having bickering parents, Snape had an almost normal childhood. *shakes head with a smile*

All right, I'm exaggerating but not much.

Now that Frakkinship aka Number 8 has left the site, we don't have any Snape shipper left, it seems. We do have Snape apologists in Inkling7, and a bit in Vanille, but they are in no way as extreme as the Snapefen who post on CoS or upload "Lily and Snape, the perfect couple videos" on YouTube! super grin


I'm trying to puzzle out how any right-thinking person can consider Lily and Snape any kind of couple, let alone a "perfect" couple, when only one of them wanted a relationship. Snily shipping is utter misogyny, in my opinion.
And I fail to see the perfection in a guy dishing out racial abuse to a girl, and joining the creepy terrorists who consider her subhuman. I fail to see the perfection in a guy resenting and bullying the child of the woman he claims to love. It just makes me hope that none of these people have custody of children, for the sake of the children. They might take it as a sign of deep and sincere true love if a new partner resented their children. Eek

sjcuk, on Snape's supposed "love", if he had truly loved Lily, he would never have associated with fanatics who wanted to kill Muggleborns. If he had truly loved her, he would never have thrown racial abuse at her. If he had truly loved her, he would never have wanted to subject her to the anguish of having her husband and son murdered. If he had truly loved Lily, he would have taken her feelings into consideration. But he never did. Never.

I don't think he coped well at all. He vented his issues by destroying other peoples' lives, by hurting other people, by treating other people like objects. I think he completely lacked empathy and refused/was unable to consider anyone else's feelings. I don't see that as coping well.
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inkling7
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Snaters Reply with quote

Don't get me wrong about loving Snape although I did feel sorry for him and somehow remember him and his mother cowering in fear when his father was abusing them but whether I read this in the books or it was in the movies I can't remember but I got the impression both Snape and his mother were bullied by his father and for some reason his mother didn't try and stop the shouting matches. I think Snape may have taken a little bit after his father in the end just like Harry had lots of both of his parents in him but more of Lily I suspect which why he didn't become a bully later on even though he was bullied when young by the Dursleys.

It is a well known fact that sometimes those who are bullied when young turn out to become bullies themselves and Snape did seem to be a victim of domestic violence even though it may not have been physical - mental abuse is also classed as domestic violence and constant arguments between his parents would have had an effect on him.

We don't know whether Snape went to a muggle school before Hogwarts but if he did he might have come across bullies like Dudley and his mates bullying him for not looking too well groomed. It happened at Hogwarts - remember James and Sirius bullied him a bit and made a fool of him. I suppose that could have been instrumental in driving him into the Deatheater gang even though they weren't DE's at that time. Snape was a weak character in many ways but strong in others but that doesn't excuse him from the way he treated Neville, Harry and Hermione and probably to a lesser extent Ron. It also doesn't excuse him from the fact he did favour Malfoy and his two idiot lackeys Dumb and Dumber - Crabbe and Goyle. At least towards the end of the series Snape did try and redeem himself somewhat as I remember him telling off the DE teachers installed at Hogwarts not to call any children Mudbloods but whether that was in the books or movies either I can't remember.
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