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S.N.A.T.E.R.s
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Kerowyn
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: S.N.A.T.E.R.s Reply with quote

inkling7 wrote:
SNATER = SNAPE HATER? super grin


Laurelluin wrote:
Snape Neutrality And Toleration Enclave Register

- dedicated to the protection of Canon Snape

....Always

For people who see Snape the way he's portrayed in the books. A slimy, greasy, bullying git who can't get over his first teenage heartbreak.

Also categorized as a pathetic loser. shifty


"Snaters" is the name that the Snapefen gave the "Away from the Dungeons" group, of which I'm a proud member.

We do not "hate" Snape. He is what he is. We see him as JKR depicted him.

A bitter, loveless, sad, bullying, pathetic figure, not a huggly cuddly lovable person who only needed to have his love returned to be a wonderful human being. That he was not so was only because James, that spoiled brat and prat, "stole" Lily from him, and Lily was a gold-digger who went after the Potters' money. Rolling Eyes

Give me a goddamn break.

Snape's love for Lily was not real love, it was totally self-centered. He didn't care about his loved one's happiness, did not respect her choice, and bullied her son and his friends unmercifully, totally abusing his power as a teacher.

Yes he was a brave man, a hero. He was an excellent double agent. His death was the saddest in the book (even sadder than Dobby's) - I voted so on CoS, on "saddest death". That does not make him lovable.

The movies did a lot - especially as he was played by Alan Rickman - to make him a sympathetic figure. I happen to hate the movies, after the second or third ones, and I want to throw up every time I think of that scene in Godric's Hollow that never was in the books (Snape was never in G's H that fateful night) with poor Harry crying his heart out and Snape ignoring him to hold on to Lily's dead body. Necrophilia, anyone?

I do not hate Snape, I feel sorry for him. But I do hate the image of him that the Snapefen want to ram down our throats. That just is NOT canon Snape.
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RavenStar



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Snaters and Snapefen Reply with quote

I really wonder whether there would be so many Snapefen if they hadn't given the role to Alan Rickman, and cleaned Snape up a bit in the movies. Movie Snape doesn't seem to have run at the sight of a bottle of shampoo. super grin
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Roar



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:14 am    Post subject: Snaters Reply with quote

Does "Snaters" stand for anything besides "Snape Hater"? If not, whoever coined it entirely missed the mark. It is not about hating Snape or loving Snape or liking Snape, or even just Canon Snape; it is about Canon Every Character. The problem with the Snapefen infestation is that it does not exist in a bubble that surrounds only Snape (which would still be an annoying problem to those who actually want to discuss Snape), but it spills out and all over the other characters. I have found that many Snapefen feel a need to mischaracterize, bash, and pass the buck on to many other HP characters in order to shape Snape into something more acceptable to them. I got tired of all the hate that poured from the Snapefen and the casual character bashing they engaged in that permeated every corner of the CoS forums. Can't stop them from labelling anti-hate, hate, though. In my mind, I'll just translate it as "Suck-it-up, you HATERS". Okay, that's stupid. I'll just shrug over it and go do my normal life stuff instead.
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gapeach1004



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Snaters Reply with quote

Snater is what Snapefen call people who do not completely agree with their convoluted view of Snape. If you think Snape has a flaw you're a Snater. If you think Snape didn't 10000% deserve Lily you're a Snater. If you think maybe Harry had a reason to dislike Snape you're a Snater. If you don't hate James Potter with all your guts you're a Snater.
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Lily_Chérie



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Snaters Reply with quote

gapeach1004 wrote:
... If you don't hate James Potter with all your guts you're a Snater.

Then I'm a proud Snater, coz I love James with all my heart! I think he grew from an arrogant toe-rag to a responsible, loving family man and a brave fighter against evil and died to protect his wife and child.

There are also those who argue that the Marauders were as bad as Snape and his Death Eater friends. That's so ridiculous. You can't compare adolescent pranks against certain persons- though sometimes those pranks might have been a bit overboard - to racism and mass murder.
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Strawberry07



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: S.N.A.T.E.R.s Reply with quote

Kerowyn wrote:

Snape's love for Lily was not real love, it was totally self-centered. He didn't care about his loved one's happiness, did not respect her choice, and bullied her son and his friends unmercifully, totally abusing his power as a teacher.


Meaning that you're also a Snater if you dare to point out that it was not at all loving that Snape did not care about the grief Lily would suffer if her husband and child were murdered. Clearly, he loved her so much, he couldn't possibly take her feelings into account. Confused Umm yeah, that's not love.

Quote:
I want to throw up every time I think of that scene in Godric's Hollow that never was in the books (Snape was never in G's H that fateful night) with poor Harry crying his heart out and Snape ignoring him to hold on to Lily's dead body. Necrophilia, anyone?


Yeah, that makes my flesh crawl. Never mind Lily's wishes and the fact that she did not want Snape holding her when she was alive. Never mind that Lily would want her child taken care of. Lily's feelings simply do not matter, despite Snape's supposed "love" for her. Point this out, and you're a Snater.

RavenStar, I do think that's got a lot to do with it. Alan Rickman is a good actor and a lot better looking than canon Snape.

Quote:
Does "Snaters" stand for anything besides "Snape Hater"? If not, whoever coined it entirely missed the mark. It is not about hating Snape or loving Snape or liking Snape, or even just Canon Snape; it is about Canon Every Character. The problem with the Snapefen infestation is that it does not exist in a bubble that surrounds only Snape (which would still be an annoying problem to those who actually want to discuss Snape), but it spills out and all over the other characters. I have found that many Snapefen feel a need to mischaracterize, bash, and pass the buck on to many other HP characters in order to shape Snape into something more acceptable to them. I got tired of all the hate that poured from the Snapefen and the casual character bashing they engaged in that permeated every corner of the CoS forums. Can't stop them from labelling anti-hate, hate, though. In my mind, I'll just translate it as "Suck-it-up, you HATERS". Okay, that's stupid. I'll just shrug over it and go do my normal life stuff instead.


Roar, yeah, I agree, it does come into nearly every character. Look at the hypocrisy of how it is never Snape's fault - Hermione is in the wrong for being too enthusiastic, and giving textbook answers; Ron and Harry are in the wrong for lacking enthusiasm and for giving practical non-textbook answers. Lily is in the wrong for objecting to the bigotry and evil crimes Snape wanted to commit. Some of them will insist that Lily was a shallow gold-digger, yet they still want to ship her with their beloved "Severus". Does not compute!!

Lily is shallow for falling in love with an attractive guy but Snape is not at all shallow for wanting an attractive girl. It was James' fault that Snape called Lily a "filthy little Mudblood", apparently. Not at all Snape's fault for embracing the rabid bigotry.

If you think that Snape was responsible for his own problems, you're a Snater. If you think that Snape's unhappy childhood was no excuse whatsoever for becoming a racist terrorist, then you're a Snater. If you don't think that Snape's unhappy childhood means that we should feel sorrier for him than the people he hurt (and got killed, remember!!), you're a Snater. Rolling Eyes (I'd love to introduce these apologists to a few episodes of Criminal Minds.)

Quote:
Snater is what Snapefen call people who do not completely agree with their convoluted view of Snape. If you think Snape has a flaw you're a Snater. If you think Snape didn't 10000% deserve Lily you're a Snater. If you think maybe Harry had a reason to dislike Snape you're a Snater. If you don't hate James Potter with all your guts you're a Snater.


Pretty much. If you think that Lily had a right not to want to be with a bigot who looked down on her, you're a Snater. If you think that Lily had a right to choose her own partner in life, then you're a Snater. If you don't view Severus Snape as the saddest ever woobie martyr who was a victim of fate and everyone else's evil deeds, then you're a Snater.
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Oerba Dia Vanille
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:23 am    Post subject: Snape Reply with quote

I trusted Snape, insomuch as I believed that he was working on Dumbledore's orders. I also believed that he knew Lily before Hogwarts. My downfall was the fact that I thought that Snape was in love with Petunia, not Lily. I believed that Petunia was a much nicer person before and during the time that Lily went to Hogwarts, and I thought that Snape would have had a thing for her. But I'm glad that Snape didn't love Petunia, after what we saw in Snape's memories...

Believe me, the TVTropes WMG side really came out in me at that point...and I didn't even discover TVTropes until about six months ago...

But yes, I thought that Snape was as unpleasant as he was portrayed, because I thought that there was no other way to portray him. Snape disliked Harry to his last breath, and it was all because of his hatred for Harry's father. In my opinion, Snape didn't really get a chance to grow up, because he joined Voldemort so soon after leaving school, and not long after that, the love of his life, who he had never managed to prove his feelings to, and who never saw him in the same way, as was my understanding, died. That's a lot to cope with for a 21 year old. I'm not saying I liked Snape- I liked him as a character, I didn't like him as a person, if that makes sense.

The thing with Snape was that he was to be pitied. He loved someone who went against everything he believed in, and that person married someone who was pretty much the antithesis of his beliefs, for which he never forgave James. Lily, in his eyes, could do no wrong, with the exception of falling for James. And his one saving grace was his love for Lily...but he could never bring himself to see Lily's obvious characteristics within Harry. Harry was mini-James in Harry's eyes.

Feel free to disagree with me...

Roar wrote:
Does "Snaters" stand for anything besides "Snape Hater"? If not, whoever coined it entirely missed the mark. It is not about hating Snape or loving Snape or liking Snape, or even just Canon Snape; it is about Canon Every Character. The problem with the Snapefen infestation is that it does not exist in a bubble that surrounds only Snape (which would still be an annoying problem to those who actually want to discuss Snape), but it spills out and all over the other characters. I have found that many Snapefen feel a need to mischaracterize, bash, and pass the buck on to many other HP characters in order to shape Snape into something more acceptable to them. I got tired of all the hate that poured from the Snapefen and the casual character bashing they engaged in that permeated every corner of the CoS forums. Can't stop them from labelling anti-hate, hate, though. In my mind, I'll just translate it as "Suck-it-up, you HATERS". Okay, that's stupid. I'll just shrug over it and go do my normal life stuff instead.


That did not permeate into my little corner of CoS...at least I don't think so...
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inkling7
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:44 am    Post subject: Snape Reply with quote

Oh dear and believe me they will don't worry... super grin

Poor old Snape - a damaged but interesting character. Even in the books I felt rather sorry for him because he hadn't the strength to overcome his childhood disadvantages like Harry did apparently was able to - but maybe this was because Harry had it in his DNA from both parents being so 'good' and Snape's parents were so flawed that his DNA didn't help him overcome his terrible childhood as Harry's did? Think about it and now come in and crucify me people...

I am not a Snapefen but on the other hand am I a SNAPER or whatever but I am a viewer of the human nature and of people's background and do take into account the background of the parents of the child and the affect it might have had ultimately on the child - i.e. Severus Snape and/or Harry Potter.... think about it because this is what I did actually study at Uni in both Psychology and Anthropology and made me think about the consequences of the actions of many unpopular people over the history of the world... background studies and analysis of forefathers and cultural backgrounds of many people just might shed a light into their actions... super grin
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Kerowyn
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Snape Reply with quote

Oerba Dia Vanille wrote:
I'm not saying I liked Snape- I liked him as a character, I didn't like him as a person, if that makes sense.

It makes perfect sense. Nasty people make good characters.

inkling7 wrote:
Poor old Snape - a damaged but interesting character. Even in the books I felt rather sorry for him because he hadn't the strength to overcome his childhood disadvantages like Harry did apparently was able to - but maybe this was because Harry had it in his DNA from both parents being so 'good' and Snape's parents were so flawed that his DNA didn't help him overcome his terrible childhood as Harry's did? Think about it and now come in and crucify me people..

Why should anyone crucify you? This is not CoS. We may disagree with you in finding so many attenuating circumstances for Snape's behaviour. His childhood was better than Harry's. He wasn't made to sleep in a cupboard under the stairs, he wasn't bullied by his relatives. There is no sign that he was abused as a child. His parents yelled at each other, not at him.

I can only repeat what I said earlier:
Quote:
I do not hate Snape, I feel sorry for him. But I do hate the image of him that the Snapefen want to ram down our throats. That just is NOT canon Snape.

What you call his "terrible childhood" is not canon either, as far as I can see. The Snapes may have been poor, little Severus may not have had the best clothes, but he was clothed and fed, and left free to wander about. There is no mention of any bruises or signs of abuse or even neglect. What do you consider "terrible" in his childhood? confused

Having to flee the house because one's parents are arguing (and IIRC we read about ONE argument - it's left to the reader to infer that it is an ongoing or recurring situation) is not a good way to grow up, that's true. But IMO, Severus (and for that matter Tom Riddle) had it much better than Harry had.

Concerning clothing, the Weasley kids weren't much better off either. They, too, were poor, and Molly had to scrape to clothe her brood properly (remember Ron's dress robes?) - But of course, the Wealey kids had love. However, there is nothing that says that Eileen Prince Snape didn't love her son and didn't try her best for him. If there's any indication that she didn't, please point me to the relevant page(s) in the books. super grin

Also, she was a witch, remember? Unless she was a masochistic witch and an unfit mother, would she have let her Muggle husband abuse her and/or her child without putting a stop to it, by magic if need be?
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Strawberry07



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Snape Reply with quote

Oerba Dia Vanille wrote:

But yes, I thought that Snape was as unpleasant as he was portrayed, because I thought that there was no other way to portray him. Snape disliked Harry to his last breath, and it was all because of his hatred for Harry's father. In my opinion, Snape didn't really get a chance to grow up, because he joined Voldemort so soon after leaving school, and not long after that, the love of his life, who he had never managed to prove his feelings to, and who never saw him in the same way, as was my understanding, died. That's a lot to cope with for a 21 year old. I'm not saying I liked Snape- I liked him as a character, I didn't like him as a person, if that makes sense.

Snape had a chance to grow up. Nobody forced him to become a dangerous terrorist. That was his choice.

Lily was in no way shape or form obliged to return Snape's feelings. Nobody is ever obliged to return someone else's feelings, meaning that unrequited love is not some devastating tragedy exclusive to Severus Snape. Also, Snape threw away Lily's friendship by throwing a hateful slur at her.

Lily didn't just die - she was murdered because Snape was a callous criminal who did not care who was murdered because of his information.

Quote:
The thing with Snape was that he was to be pitied. He loved someone who went against everything he believed in, and that person married someone who was pretty much the antithesis of his beliefs, for which he never forgave James. Lily, in his eyes, could do no wrong, with the exception of falling for James. And his one saving grace was his love for Lily...but he could never bring himself to see Lily's obvious characteristics within Harry. Harry was mini-James in Harry's eyes.

Lily went against everything Snape believed in - I think that was a good thing. Lily was not some doormat who would tolerate racial abuse. She would not accept Snape's belief that she was inferior. She refused to imagine that she was being honoured with the "love" of a superior. Lily refused to condone the evil crimes of the Death Eaters. I think that's a good thing. I think these are all good things, and not a cause to feel sorry for Snape. I don't feel sorry for a man when the woman he wants stands up to him and walks away from abusive behaviour.

Snape's love for Lily was selfish and obsessive.He saw her as a possession. I don't think much of his "love" for her, when he did not care one little bit about her feelings. How is it love, when he does not even think of her feelings, at all? He doesn't love Lily, he loves how he feels about her; he loves an image of Lily, not the real Lily. He loves an image of Lily who would support his DE crimes and be thrilled to be an exception to the bigotry. He loves an image of Lily who would not be devastated at the murders of her husband and son and fall into his widow-comforting arms. He loves an image of Lily who would not object to her son being bullied.

Quote:
That did not permeate into my little corner of CoS...at least I don't think so...

You haven't seen the posts where the Marauders are blamed for Snape becoming a terrorist? Where Lily is accused of having looked for an "excuse" to ditch Snape? Where Lily is a selfish shallow gold-digger for not being more "supportive" of Snape and for loving James instead? And for loving someone she could trust? Where Snape's bullying of Harry, Hermione and Neville is justified? Because that's all I've seen from the Snape fans on CoS.

Quote:
Poor old Snape - a damaged but interesting character. Even in the books I felt rather sorry for him because he hadn't the strength to overcome his childhood disadvantages like Harry did apparently was able to - but maybe this was because Harry had it in his DNA from both parents being so 'good' and Snape's parents were so flawed that his DNA didn't help him overcome his terrible childhood as Harry's did? Think about it and now come in and crucify me people...

... background studies and analysis of forefathers and cultural backgrounds of many people just might shed a light into their actions... super grin

As Kerowyn points out, we don't have canon about Snape's childhood being "terrible", nor about what the extent of what his family problems were.

However, whatever it was like, Snape's childhood may explain his decision to become a dangerous criminal and (in making amends Confused ) an adult who bullies children, including the child orphaned because of his callousness. But it certainly does not justify it.

Snape's past does not make him more deserving of sympathy than the victims of his crimes and bitterness. Snape destroyed lives because of his selfishness and self-pity. IMO, that is the thing that bothers me when it comes to Snape and seeing his actions excused. Because I see a difference between excusing and explaining. Snape chose to hurt others, to be at the very least an accessory to murder, if not a murderer himself, to destroy innocent lives, to bully children under his authority, and I can't bring myself to think "how sad it is for Snape that Lily refused to have anything to do with a bigot". I can't bring myself to think "how sad it is for Snape that Voldemort chose the Potters instead of the Longbottoms" or " how sad it is for Snape that Voldemort killed Lily instead of Harry." I just can't. Snape may have had his problems, but I cannot bring myself to feel sorry for Snape in the situations where he is the aggressor, the terrorist, the bully, the selfish one.
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