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Gun Culture in the USA
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murat



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Gun Culture in the USA Reply with quote

Excellent article

http://www.alternet.org/story/156408/the_nra_has_america_living_under_the_gun?page=1
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inkling7
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Gun Control Reply with quote

Isn't it about time somebody with authority changed the gun laws in this seemingly cowboy mentality country? And to think I thought Australia and the UK were bad enough but the US really takes the cake on gun related massacres which seem to happen there rather regularly according to the press...... Sad

Isn't about time somebody with authority took a stand about this 'gun culture and mentality' in the US? No I thought not....

A BOY of about 12 peered into a display case in the museum at the National Rifle Association's headquarters in Virginia and pointed at a sub-machinegun. "That's a Mac 10," he told his father. "They call it the street-sweeper."

Out the front the American flag flew at half-mast in respect for the 12 people killed earlier in the day in Colorado. Out back, the multi-storey car park above the NRA's shooting range was nearly full.

On the front desk phone a member of the association's media team said she was too busy to meet, but offered to send me the same statement issued earlier that day.

''Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims, their families and the community. NRA will not have any further comment until all the facts are known.''

But as the survivors told their stories to media in that eloquent way Americans have in the face of tragedy - and this sort of tragedy is hardly a rarity - there was no sense that any politician would be seriously challenging the NRA's power.

The President, Barack Obama, and the Republican candidate, Mitt Romney, suspended their campaigns, but neither mentioned the ready availability of guns in America, nor the influence of the NRA over politics.

On the scene in Aurora, Colorado, as the bodies still lay where they fell, the Governor, John Kickenlooper, appeared to signal his support for the NRA. "We can't allow people that are aberrations of nature to take away the joys and freedoms that we enjoy."

Perhaps he was talking about going to movies.

The most prominent politician to raise gun control was the New York mayor, Michael Bloomberg, who said in a radio interview: "Soothing words are nice, but maybe it's time that the two people who want to be president of the United States stand up and tell us what they are going to do about it.

''I don't think there's any other developed country in the world that has remotely the problem we have. We have more guns than people in this country.''

The NRA's former chief lobbyist Richard Feldman told The Sun-Herald last night: "What people [outside America] don't understand is that there are millions of Americans who view this democracy of ours entirely through the gun issue.'' Why? "Well, because we did not defeat the British [in the American revolution] by protesting or writing letters; we took it with guns."

Mr Feldman would rather deal with the occasional "horror" than take the risk of allowing the US government to take guns away.

"Once you lose a right you can never win it back."

Boo Hoo! So would that be such a bad thing? Sad
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Wildflower



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Control Reply with quote

inkling7 wrote:
Isn't it about time somebody with authority changed the gun laws in this seemingly cowboy mentality country? And to think I thought Australia and the UK were bad enough but the US really takes the cake on gun related massacres which seem to happen there rather regularly according to the press...... Sad

Yes, it would be high time, but you see, the problem is that the gun lobby is very powerful, they brandish the Second Amendment, and it's practically impossible to reason with these people. Look at Michele Bachman, or was it Christine O'Donnell, one of those right-wing nuts anyway, proclaiming proudly that they are "armed and dangerous" and inciting their followers to march on to Washington DC with their firearms as close as the law allows them to.

One of my neighbors voted against Obama last time because Obama was going to "take my guns away from me." Chances are, he'll also vote Republican this time, just to keep his precious gun.

Another man I know, who always has a gun on him (I wonder what for, really our corner of the woods is a fairly safe and peaceful one) - I tried to tackle him on those gun-related massacres that happen all too often in the US because anyone can buy a gun, legally or illegally, and a lot of those buyers are certified nutcases - anyway, I tried to tell him about a case where one of those crazy gunmen mowed down 17 people. His response was "You can do as much damage with a car." Which of course is totally absurd. When a car comes at you, you have time to jump away, at least most of the people. When someone opens fire with an automatic weapon, you don't even have time to duck, that is if you saw it coming.

But it was no use. My arguments fell on deaf ears, or stony ground, whatever you want to call it. I stopped even broaching the subject with that person.

And look at our own Seed in here. He can't see the difference between a "total ban on guns" (which nobody has even suggested) and "gun control", i.e. make sure that guns can't be obtained so easily, even by mail order. Pale sigh

Quote:
"Once you lose a right you can never win it back."

Boo Hoo! So would that be such a bad thing? Sad

For those people, yes. For them it is a constitutional right and they will fight to keep it by any means, fair or foul. The Gun lobby has a lot of money. Which is why Democratic presidents and lawmakers tread very carefully around the issue.

It ends up with massacres, or with some redneck killing an innocent Japanese student one Halloween night because the poor kid walked got the wrong address and didn't understand the word "Freeze!" - The student died, the shooter got acquitted because he was within his rights shooting an "intruder" on his property. The Japanese were outraged at the acquittal but that's the way it is.

But, as I said before, there's no point even trying to argue. Even with educated, intelligent people. Those who are against Gun control say that it is a right and they don't want to lose it, because "if we start with that, which freedom will we give up next?"

I gave it up as a hopeless cause and stopped trying to discuss it with my Republican acquaintances.
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inkpot



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: A case in point Reply with quote

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/21/the-motivation-behind-the-colorado-killings-is-murky-but-the-horror-is-crystal-clear.html
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inkpot



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:16 pm    Post subject: New gun laws not on the agenda Reply with quote

inkling7 wrote:
Isn't it about time somebody with authority changed the gun laws in this seemingly cowboy mentality country?

Apparently not. They're afraid to touch it. The article below is from Yahoo News.

White House Plays Down Possibility of New Gun Laws
The White House signaled Thursday that President Barack Obama would not be seeking new gun control laws in the aftermath of the mass shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. But press secretary Jay Carney said Obama would try to find ways to work around the "stalemate" in Congress to keep firearms out of the wrong hands.

During a brief photo-op with his Cabinet, Obama himself sidestepped a reporter's question about how he would proceed without seeking new legislation.

"I'm sure we'll have more opportunity to talk about this," the president said.

Obama had called late Wednesday for tighter background checks to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. He called for "common sense" and repeated his support for the lapsed Assault Weapons Ban.

But he also acknowledged the difficult politics of the issue — especially in an election year — and asserted that he was a believer in individual gun rights.

Carney returned to the political problem on Thursday. "I think there is an issue about the stalemate in Congress," the spokesman said at his daily briefing. "And there are things that we can do short of legislation and short of gun laws, as the President said, that can reduce violence in our society and, as he mentioned last night, in our urban centers."

"I know he will continue to press the Department of Justice to try to enhance the enforcement of existing laws, try to further develop our background check system so that it prevents criminals and those who should not have weapons from getting them under existing law," Carney said. "And he'll continue to make sure that his administration is partnering with local law enforcement officials and government officials."

Asked about reporting that suggests that the Colorado shooter violated no laws, and how even tighter background checks would prevent a similar tragedy in the future, Carney replied: "I don't think the President ever suggested that the background check can stop every crime from occurring in America, even one as heinous as this."

"But we do need to take a broader look at what we can do to reduce violence in America," he said. "And it requires a multi-faceted approach that looks at this problem from a variety of angles, and that's not just legislative and it's not just about gun laws."
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inkling7
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:23 pm    Post subject: The right to bear arms Reply with quote

OK it seems to be all about the right to bear arms but when that right was given the only guns around then were probably single shot muskets so why not make that the only gun people have the right to bear arms with..... super grin
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: The right to bear arms Reply with quote

inkling7 wrote:
OK it seems to be all about the right to bear arms but when that right was given the only guns around then were probably single shot muskets so why not make that the only gun people have the right to bear arms with..... super grin

Nice thought, and good luck with that! bleh
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inkling7
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Gun Control Reply with quote

Well thank gawd I don't live in the US! The gun laws in Australia are a lot stricter and ordinary Aussies can't bear arms. Legal guns are for farmers and hunters to get rid of vermin like wild boars etc or target shooters have to use a rifle range or somewhere like that and guns have to be kept in a locked gun cabinet when not in use for legal reasons. You can't walk around with a gun your bag etc here so far less massacres of innocent people - in fact I don't think we've had one since the Port Arthur massacre in 1996.
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Wildflower



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:24 am    Post subject: Gun Control Reply with quote

inkling7 wrote:
Well thank gawd I don't live in the US! The gun laws in Australia are a lot stricter and ordinary Aussies can't bear arms.

Well, I was discussing the subject with the same Romney apologist friend I mentioned before. I was telling him that a friend of mine (Murat on this forum, actually) had been mugged at an ATM in France by two Roma youths. His answer was "That wouldn't have happened in Texas because everyone in Texas is carrying a gun and would have shot the muggers."

His idea of "gun control" is knowing how to hold and aim your gun. Rolling Eyes

He didn't go as far as another man I was discussing gun control with, and was mentioning the latest massacre, and who said "You could have done as much damage with a car."

As I said before, I stopped discussing politics with my Republican friends and acquaintances. Pale sigh
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murat



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Gun Control Reply with quote

Wildflower wrote:
As I said before, I stopped discussing politics with my Republican friends and acquaintances. Pale sigh

I'm surprised you, who have such strong differing opinions, can stay friends with people who think that way.

Yes, I was mugged by some Roma thugs, but it wouldn't occur to me to get a gun to shoot them!!! Those friends of yours do have a "cowboy mentality", don't they? Rolling Eyes
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