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Hermione Granger - What made her tick?
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The Shuttle



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:41 am    Post subject: Re: Hermione and Lily Reply with quote

inkling7 wrote:
It seems Hermione was written this way as Jo recognised a lot of herself in the character. Perhaps Lily was written more like Jo's sister? Comfortable about her abilities and with who she was?

It's a good theory. Lily certainly didn't seem insecure.

But why was it so hard for Hermione to see, let alone admit, when she was wrong? Like when she had the Thunderbolt that Sirius sent to Harry taken away by McGonagall to have it checked for hexes, jinxes, death traps, whatever. When it turned out that it was really just a broom, though the best to be had, she still had to point out that she was right in thinking it came from Sirius. Is JKR like that too, and the reason why she brushes it off when readers point out the inconsistencies in the books?
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Romione



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Hermione and Lily Reply with quote

The Shuttle wrote:
It's a good theory. Lily certainly didn't seem insecure.

But why was it so hard for Hermione to see, let alone admit, when she was wrong? Like when she had the Thunderbolt that Sirius sent to Harry taken away by McGonagall to have it checked for hexes, jinxes, death traps, whatever. When it turned out that it was really just a broom, though the best to be had, she still had to point out that she was right in thinking it came from Sirius. Is JKR like that too, and the reason why she brushes it off when readers point out the inconsistencies in the books?


I wouldn't say Jo is like that now, but she has said Hermione is a lot like she was when she was younger so it could be that Jo was like that as a teenager. However, Hermione is not exactly like Jo so some of her traits would differ - that could be one of them.

You make a good point about Lily. We do get a sense that Lily had some concerns about being muggleborn when she asks Snape if it made a difference, but my impression was that was more in line with what we see from Harry in that he worried about not knowing as much as kids who had grown up knowing they were witches/wizards. But Harry also realized fairly quickly that it didn't make a huge difference because, in general, parents weren't teaching their kids spells and magical theory in the wizarding world. They were all starting out at basically the same level in that regard. I think the biggest difference there would be that kids like Ron were more comfortable with magic in general because they grew up around people doing magic all the time and they would know more about the wizarding world in general - i.e. Ron telling Harry about dragon breeding being outlawed and how giants had been banished because they were vicious, etc...

Hermione displays a much higher level of insecurity and I never really got the impression that was due to her being muggleborn because she seems to have that insecurity about everything - not just magic. Her fear of failure was already very deep seated when she arrived at Hogwarts and my impression was that had always been an issue for her. I would say Hermione was just as driven to prove herself to be the best when she attended muggle primary school as she was at Hogwarts. That was a deeply ingrained part of her personality. If she wasn't the best - if she didn't get every answer correct - then she had failed.

That type of insecurity most often stems from parental expectations I think. We don't learn enough about Hermione's parents to really determine what kind of relationship they had. I do think they loved Hermione very much and they were very supportive of her - even if they were a bit confused about her being a witch and what that entailed. But they are also presented as professionals - both being dentists - and it seems likely they were both very driven to succeed and expected their daughter to do well. I can see them stressing the importance of getting good grades because they would have wanted her to get into good schools when she was older.

However, Hermione being a witch would likely be a factor as well because she would have had some "accidental surges of power" - as all magical children do. Being the "smart kid" would have resulted in her being teased by other kids by itself - add in weird things happening around her and that would be a lot worse I think. I wonder if her parents got letters about incidents like the Dursleys did with Harry - that could have had an impact on Hermione's relationship with her parents prior to the revelation that she was a witch I think.

I don't think any of this was just arbitrary. Jo put a lot of effort into creating backgrounds and histories for the characters. I hope we get something extensive for Hermione on Pottermore that will reveal more about her.
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Cho_Lover
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Background on Hermione Reply with quote

We can hope to get more background on Hermione on Pottermore. Though she'll be absent for reason of petrification for part of CoS, she's the one who found out about the basilisk, the pipes and the mirror, after all, isn't she? They'd have had a lot more difficulty solving the mystery without that piece of paper clutched in her hand.

Hopefully we'll get at least as much info on her as we did on the Malfoys.
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Lily_Chérie



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:20 am    Post subject: Hermione's arrogance Reply with quote

Copied from the SPEW thread:

Quote:
I think Hermione believed she knew what was best and went behind the backs of those concerned to do what she thought was necessary - just as she did with the Firebolt.

That's one of the problems with Hermione. She always "knows best", is sure of it. So, to get things "right", she does them sneakily. She tries to trick the House Elves into freedom, she goes to McGonagall behind Harry's back about the Firebolt.

But, as Romione said, deep down she must have known that what she did was wrong, she just ignored that inner voice that reminded her that the Elves practically threw her out of the kitchen, that she should listen to Hagrid, and that she should at least talk to Harry about his new broom. In the same vein, she doesn't tell anybody about the jinx she put on the DA parchment either - there would have been questions - what kind of jinx, what will it do, can it be undone? She didn't want to share that information, because she was bent on doing things her way, and "don't bother me with the facts."

There are other instances where one's not quite sure if it's her arrogance or her insecurity that makes her do things the way she does.

Yes Bill I agree with you, I hope that on Pottermore JKR will let us know more about what makes Hermione tick, and what made her that way.
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Strawberry07



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Hermione's arrogance Reply with quote

Lily_Chérie wrote:
Copied from the SPEW thread:

Quote:
I think Hermione believed she knew what was best and went behind the backs of those concerned to do what she thought was necessary - just as she did with the Firebolt.

That's one of the problems with Hermione. She always "knows best", is sure of it. So, to get things "right", she does them sneakily. She tries to trick the House Elves into freedom, she goes to McGonagall behind Harry's back about the Firebolt.


I think this is one of Hermione's biggest flaws. She finds it hard to consider the views of others and to accept that they might be right. Hermione is convinced that she knows best. The incident with the broom - Hermione did not try to explain her concerns to Harry and Ron. She just glared at the broom. She could have shared her worries that Sirius might have sent Harry a jinxed broom. But she did not. They might have listened to her concerns. They might not. But she could have tried. She could have issued an ultimatum - "take the broom to McGonagall, or I'll bring McGonagall to the broom" But she didn't - she went behind their backs for no real reason.

Quote:
There are other instances where one's not quite sure if it's her arrogance or her insecurity that makes her do things the way she does.

Yeah, Hermione is a curious mix of arrogance and insecurity.

Quote:
Yes Bill I agree with you, I hope that on Pottermore JKR will let us know more about what makes Hermione tick, and what made her that way

I'll third that, I think it would be really interesting to findout a bit more about Hermione.
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Proud Puff



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Hermione's arrogance and insecurity Reply with quote

Quote:
Yeah, Hermione is a curious mix of arrogance and insecurity.

IMO it's both that led her to do what she did either sneakily (the Elves' socks and hats, Harry's broom) or without telling anyone (the jinx on the DA parchment).

Though sure she was right, she feared that people would disagree and challenge her, and we already know she doesn't take criticism well. She didn't want to be talked out of whatever it was she was intending, and she didn't want to hear any argument against her plans. She'd have dismissed them anyway, like she dismissed what Hagrid and the Elves told her. So, from her point of view, it was better just to go ahead and see what would happen, being convinced that it would be what she wanted to happen. Of course it didn't work out that way.
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Wildflower



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Background on Hermione Reply with quote

Cho_Lover wrote:
We can hope to get more background on Hermione on Pottermore. Though she'll be absent for reason of petrification for part of CoS, she's the one who found out about the basilisk, the pipes and the mirror, after all, isn't she? They'd have had a lot more difficulty solving the mystery without that piece of paper clutched in her hand.

Hopefully we'll get at least as much info on her as we did on the Malfoys.

If she really is the way JKR was at her age, we should get something more detailed about her. I don't know why she's the one member of the Trio on whom we know so little outside of her life at Hogwarts and her adventures with Harry and Ron. Unlike for Ron and Harry (though for Harry it's not in "real life") we never see her interaction with her parents. I think we see them briefly once in Diagon Alley, but they're not a constant presence like the Weasleys and the Potters (even dead) are.

Yes, maybe when we come to the part where she works out that the monster is a basilisk, and that it moves along the pipes, JKR will take the opportunity to give us more details on her background.
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RavenStar



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Background on Hermione Reply with quote

I'm curious to know how Hermione's dentist parents reacted when her Hogwarts letter came? We know Lily's parents were thrilled to have a magical child, but how did the Grangers take it? From the little we see in the books, they seem to take it in their stride, but how hard was it for them to accept it at first? confused
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inkling7
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:01 pm    Post subject: Background on Hermione Reply with quote

Hey - as a dentist's daughter and understanding why my father chose dentistry over architecture or medicine which were his other two options (his brother chose the second when his turn came) so don't knock dentists and why Hermione's parents were so accepting and understanding of the wizarding world and her career choice in the end. I can imagine my father doing the exact same thing - my mother? Well she died of cancer when I was 6-7 years old after I saw her suffer for about 2 years from it but I am sure she would have been the same as Hermione's mother since she was a qualified dental nurse at one stage..... super grin
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RavenStar



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Background on Hermione Reply with quote

inkling7 wrote:
Hey - as a dentist's daughter and understanding why my father chose dentistry over architecture or medicine which were his other two options (his brother chose the second when his turn came) so don't knock dentists and why Hermione's parents were so accepting and understanding of the wizarding world and her career choice in the end. I can imagine my father doing the exact same thing - my mother? Well she died of cancer when I was 6-7 years old after I saw her suffer for about 2 years from it but I am sure she would have been the same as Hermione's mother since she was a qualified dental nurse at one stage..... super grin

Whoa there, Inkling! I wasn't knocking anything. Please read my post carefully. I'm just curious to know how the Grangers took the news that their daughter was a witch. That they were dentists is irrelevant to the question, I just put it in because Hermione mentioned what her parents did for a living.

I'm sorry about your mother dying of cancer - and I'm sure she would have had a positive reaction if you'd turned out to be a witch. But that really has nothing to do with my question.

It was just an inquiry, not a criticism by any means. What I said was, we don't know how they reacted at first. You'll admit it must have been a shock. That's all it was. It wasn't any slam on dentists or anyone else. I had no idea your father was a dentist, nor does that come into account in this discussion.

I really wish you weren't so touchy... and so quick to misunderstand and lash out. I didn't mean anything, I was just asking a question, for Pete's sake! Rolling Eyes
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