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Don't want to talk about Snape? Discuss Elves!
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Proud Puff



Joined: 30 Jul 2009
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Location: Hufflepuff House

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: The Elves' Enchantment Reply with quote

Romione wrote:
Helga Hufflepuff convinced house-elves to come to Hogwarts by promising them better working conditions. That was their choice from what Jo said. Another example of house-elves having more control than Hermione acknowledged I think.

Is that how it happened? I was wondering.

I vaguely remember having read somewhere (but it may not have been canon) that it was Helga Hufflepuff who drew up the original agreement (pact, treaty, whatever) on the relationship between Elves and Humans. That surprised me a bit, that the Elves would agree to serve in exchange for protection. There's also the parallel with brownies or other "little people", someone mentioned it earlier. Those little people that do the cleaning of a house and are offended when they are offered payment for it.

I never thought of the Elves laundering the hats and socks that Hermione left for them and returning them to her. That would really have been hilarious. wacko
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Romione



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: The Elves' Enchantment Reply with quote

Proud Puff wrote:
Is that how it happened? I was wondering.

I vaguely remember having read somewhere (but it may not have been canon) that it was Helga Hufflepuff who drew up the original agreement (pact, treaty, whatever) on the relationship between Elves and Humans. That surprised me a bit, that the Elves would agree to serve in exchange for protection. There's also the parallel with brownies or other "little people", someone mentioned it earlier. Those little people that do the cleaning of a house and are offended when they are offered payment for it.


From what Jo said, the house-elves were already slaves when Helga Hufflepuff made that deal. She specifically stated that freeing the house-elves was not an option in those days so Hufflepuff offered them better working conditions to convince them to come to Hogwarts with her. She didn't go into specifics as to where they were, what conditions they were in, or exactly how Hufflepuff managed to change their location though. It sounded as though, wherever they were at the time, they were being treated very badly.

Regardless, I think it is clear that Hufflepuff made that deal with the house-elves directly. She didn't buy them from someone else or do a spell to forcefully bind them to Hogwarts. She talked directly to them about providing better working conditions and treating them well. The house-elves liked what she had to say and agreed to go with her. So that is an example of house-elves choosing to bind themselves to Hogwarts rather than being forced into it or simply brainwashed.

That actually makes me wonder about the enchantment itself. I mentioned before that it was possible this was done through the Ministry - and I would still consider that a possibility - but it's also possible that the enchantment was created by house-elves. Binding themselves to certain locations - and by extension, the families who owned them.

It would be great if Jo gives more information about house-elves on Pottermore. Though I'm not sure she would go into quite as much detail as we have in our speculations. Laughing

Quote:
I never thought of the Elves laundering the hats and socks that Hermione left for them and returning them to her. That would really have been hilarious. wacko


It would have. I can picture the look on Hermione's face if she returned to her dorm room only to find all those hats and socks neatly laundered and folded on her bed. Laughing
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Strawberry07



Joined: 06 Jun 2011
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: The Elves' Enchantment Reply with quote

Romione wrote:
That actually makes me wonder about the enchantment itself. I mentioned before that it was possible this was done through the Ministry - and I would still consider that a possibility - but it's also possible that the enchantment was created by house-elves. Binding themselves to certain locations - and by extension, the families who owned them.


I don't know if the elves would have carried out the binding themselves. I think if they had done, they would have given themselves some form of protection against abusive families like the Malfoys. Unless the earlier elves were truly naive and didn't expect wizarding folk to harm or take advantage of fellow magical creatures intent on helping them.

Quote:
It would be great if Jo gives more information about house-elves on Pottermore. Though I'm not sure she would go into quite as much detail as we have in our speculations. Laughing


Dobby explains something of his situation when he visits Harry in the Hospital Wing after the Rogue Bludger incident - it would be a very fitting moment in which to unlock House Elf information. Fingers crossed!
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inkling7
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Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 6345
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: House-elves and questions on their existence..... Reply with quote

OK so when the house-elves die how are they replaced? We know they die because the Blacks had several heads or something of previous house-elves mounted on the wall didn't they? Correct me if i am wrong and I just imagined I read this..... super grin

Anyway back to replacing them and the question then also comes up is how if they are bound to a place do newly built castles like Hogwarts and new houses etc acquire house-elves? This makes me wonder if they are bound to a place. Do house-elves reproduce or how do they come into existence in the first place? Are there house-elves who are husband and wife who then make baby house-elves?

Questions I would like answered even if nobody else does..... super grin
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Kerowyn
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Joined: 04 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Re: House-elves and questions on their existence..... Reply with quote

inkling7 wrote:
OK so when the house-elves die how are they replaced? We know they die because the Blacks had several heads or something of previous house-elves mounted on the wall didn't they? Correct me if i am wrong and I just imagined I read this..... super grin

Anyway back to replacing them and the question then also comes up is how if they are bound to a place do newly built castles like Hogwarts and new houses etc acquire house-elves? This makes me wonder if they are bound to a place. Do house-elves reproduce or how do they come into existence in the first place? Are there house-elves who are husband and wife who then make baby house-elves?

Questions I would like answered even if nobody else does..... super grin

Those are good questions. ten

No, you didn't imagine it, the Blacks had the heads of their dead House Elves mounted on the wall of the entrance hall, and Ron (I think it was Ron) told Hermione, rolling his eyes, that Kreacher's ambition was to join his ancestors on that wall some day. Which means that his parents were the Blacks' elves before him. Or at least 12 Grimmauld Place's elves if it is true that the elves are tied to a house and not a family (I'm not as sure as Romione is on that one, though.)

I can't recall a House Elf romance, though at one point I was wondering whether Dobby and Winky were headed that way. They do socialize, talk to each other, but as to love, marriage and babies, I've never heard of baby house elves.

Romione, you're our top HP expert here, you can quote all the books by heart - is there anything that lets us know about house elves reproductive process? confused
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4Wizards



Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 88
Location: Grimmauld Place

PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: House-elves and questions on their existence..... Reply with quote

Kerowyn wrote:
I can't recall a House Elf romance, though at one point I was wondering whether Dobby and Winky were headed that way. They do socialize, talk to each other, but as to love, marriage and babies, I've never heard of baby house elves.

Romione, you're our top HP expert here, you can quote all the books by heart - is there anything that lets us know about house elves reproductive process? confused

I don't remember reading about baby house elves either.

Has Romione dropped off the edge of the Potterverse? Can anyone else shed light on this? I for one would like to know.
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Laurelluin



Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 572
Location: Puget Sound

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: House-elves and questions on their existence..... Reply with quote

4Wizards wrote:
Romione, you're our top HP expert here, you can quote all the books by heart - is there anything that lets us know about house elves reproductive process? confused

I don't remember reading about baby house elves either. confused

Quote:
Has Romione dropped off the edge of the Potterverse? Can anyone else shed light on this? I for one would like to know.

Last I heard Romione was having trouble with her PC so wasn't getting online much anywhere as much as she used, not just in the Potterverse but all over the web.
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4Wizards



Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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Location: Grimmauld Place

PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: House-elves and questions on their existence..... Reply with quote

Laurelluin wrote:
I don't remember reading about baby house elves either. confused

I'm trying to imagine what Dobby, Winky and Kreacher looked like as babies or as toddler Elves.
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Laurelluin



Joined: 04 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: House-elves and questions on their existence..... Reply with quote

4Wizards wrote:
Laurelluin wrote:
I don't remember reading about baby house elves either. confused

I'm trying to imagine what Dobby, Winky and Kreacher looked like as babies or as toddler Elves.


Kind of scary, considering how ugly-ish they seem to be as described.

And imagine how tiny! Shocked
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4Wizards



Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Baby Elves Reply with quote

For that matter, I don't remember seeing any baby elves or even elf children in Lord of the Rings either. Were Elrond, Arwen, Glorfindel et al. just born adults and stayed that way, unchanging or hardly changing, for millenia? You don't see elderly elves either, whether on HP or LotR. In the latter, they're all in the prime of life. Let's say between 25 (Arwen, Legolas) and 50 (Elrond, Galadriel...). In HP, Kreacher may be a bit older than Winky and Dobby, but it's hard to tell.

What's a House Elf's life span anyway? confused LotR elves are immortal unless killed in battle, or unless like Arwen they marry a mortal.
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