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Did JKR show favouritism in her writing?
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Strawberry07



Joined: 06 Jun 2011
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: That scene in DH2 Reply with quote

Hedwig wrote:
Going off-topic, that's why that scene in the DH2 movie of Snape holding Lily's body is so annoying to a true Potter fan (besides the psychology of it, Snape focussing on Lily and not sparing Harry even a glance while the poor baby was bawling his heart out.) There was no way Snape could have known where to go, unless he followed Voldie that fateful night. Unless Voldie told him, which is improbable.


Even more improbable when you consider that Snape had memories of Lily's final moments - her final words to Harry, her murder - which infuriatingly didn't show a single thing about Lily refusing to step aside -you know, the whole choice that saved Harry. Using basic logic applied to the way things work in the HP world, there is no way for Snape to have those memories. He wasn't there, so he could not have those memories. But why let logic get in the way of something despicably self-absorbed and obsessive dressed up as love?
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Romione



Joined: 28 May 2009
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: No wands Reply with quote

inkling7 wrote:
No wands! Too trusting? Very stupid if you ask me - knowing that magic is not always foolproof but still......


Neither of them had wands. James put his down after Lily took Harry to bed and Lily did not take her wand with her. In Voldemort's memory from DH, he called them both foolish for believing they could set their wands aside.

That was the point though I think. They didn't keep their wands with them all the time because they completely trusted Pettigrew. They believed he would never tell Voldemort how to find them - so Voldemort never would be able to find them. I think it emphasizes the magnitude of Pettigrew's betrayal because they did trust him so much.
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Hedwig



Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: No wands Reply with quote

Romione wrote:
Neither of them had wands. James put his down after Lily took Harry to bed and Lily did not take her wand with her. In Voldemort's memory from DH, he called them both foolish for believing they could set their wands aside.

That was the point though I think. They didn't keep their wands with them all the time because they completely trusted Pettigrew. They believed he would never tell Voldemort how to find them - so Voldemort never would be able to find them. I think it emphasizes the magnitude of Pettigrew's betrayal because they did trust him so much.

That's what I said on the previous page.

I wonder, though, how Pettigrew ever got to be part of the Marauders. He had nothing in common with the other three. How come they let him tag along, and how did he get them to trust him so completely? confused
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Hedwig



Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: That scene in DH2 Reply with quote

Strawberry07 wrote:
Even more improbable when you consider that Snape had memories of Lily's final moments - her final words to Harry, her murder - which infuriatingly didn't show a single thing about Lily refusing to step aside -you know, the whole choice that saved Harry.

Another infuriating omission. An extremely important one.

Quote:
Using basic logic applied to the way things work in the HP world, there is no way for Snape to have those memories. He wasn't there, so he could not have those memories. But why let logic get in the way of something despicably self-absorbed and obsessive dressed up as love?

Did the Snapefen infiltrate the movie-makers? wonder

Coz "snapefen" and "logic" don't belong in the same sentence.

That scene makes me cringe every time I think of it. I never watched the movie again, though some HP movies I watched up to five times or more. Pale sigh
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The Shuttle



Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 367
Location: AV's Chamber of Secrets

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:56 am    Post subject: Year of the Rat Reply with quote

inkling7 wrote:
Hmm I was born in the year of the rat but would have certainly told the toe-rags off like Lily did. I may be cunning but I'm very loyal to friends and family. But enough of that... super grin

You'll be interested to know that the "Year of the Rat" in Chinese and English is the "Year of the Mouse" in Vietnamese. super grin You don't look at all mousy to me, though. bleh

Mice are cute, though. Look at what Disney did with them. I'm not even talking Mickey and Minnie Mouse, but mice like those in "Cinderella".

P.S. When I say you don't "look mousy", I don't mean that you're not cute. Just that you have forceful opinions and are as far from "quiet as a mouse" as can be. wink

Aaaaah, I'm hopelessly off-topic here. We all are, actually. Surprising that no Mod has come in to split the thread and rap our fingers. Eek
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Wildflower



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:03 am    Post subject: OT Reply with quote

The Shuttle wrote:
Aaaaah, I'm hopelessly off-topic here. We all are, actually. Surprising that no Mod has come in to split the thread and rap our fingers. Eek

I've been thinking about it for a while now, but decided to let it be. There's no real "logical" point where to split the thread, with all the OT asides in the middle of the debate on favouritism on JKR's part. Then it went off in all directions.

Better let it be than split the thread in two, three or more. We are, after all, not CoS Mods.

This said, consider your fingers rapped. All of you who went OT
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Wildflower



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 6848
Location: Shuttling between France and the US

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Famous last words Reply with quote

Quote:
Better let it be than split the thread in two, three or more.

OK I take it back. I've split this thread about 3 times now. Made a separate thread for Pettigrew, another one for Dumbledore (from another thread, though), one for Hufflepuff House and the latest one for Hermione.super grin
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gapeach1004



Joined: 06 Jun 2011
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Favoritism? Reply with quote

I've never really thought JKR's writing toward James was slanted. She makes James Harry's hero. He looks up to his dad, well, the image he has of his dad. We know more about James than we do Lily. We know who James's friends in school were. We do learn in the end about Lily's friendship with Snape, but that's small in comparison to knowing James's group. Harry has a bigger connection to James just by knowing Sirius and Remus. We learn more about James's personality, I think, than we do Lily's. As I see it, James is more developed on the page. Lily doesn't really come out until the end of DH. James is seen all over.

And as I look I see the original topic of this thread has changed and my post is somehow drifting off into off-topicness? Well, it's me bringing this thread back to it's original topic, :p

inkling7 wrote:
Due to Harry's early age it is probable that Lily spent more time with baby Harry than his father did as I bet Harry was breast-fed. Boy I bet I have opened a can of worms here. super grin
Can of worms, oooh. I think of the wizarding world as being very traditional. I don't mean in the conservative meaning of the word. They don't use technology like Muggles do. I would think they would breastfeed. That's like any animal taking care of its babies. I've not done any research on this (why should I? I'm single and not looking at having a baby any time soon, nor am I working in that field), but I think formula and bottle feeding is rarely new in the concept of the age of the world.

Anyway, that's really off-topic. I just couldn't help myself.

Quote:
My guess is that Jo as a mother herself spent more time with her children when they were babies than their father's did and wrote of this experience accordingly.
The example would be Molly Weasley. She's the stay-at-home mother while her husband has the job and makes the money. She's the one raising the kids. The Wizarding World seems like it's not very progressive in that both mother and father have jobs. Someone's got to stay home and take care of the kids until they're 11. There's no elementary school for them, so I would imagine there's no preschool or daycare. During the school year kids ages 11 and up are at Hogwarts so they're not able to watch their younger siblings.

James didn't have a job (aside from being part of The Order), but he did grow up in the world with the views, beliefs, and traditions. Most of this is educated guessing. He was probably raised more by his mom than his dad. His dad most likely had the job outside of the house and his mother stayed home with him. When he has a child he sees it as the mother's job. He can play with Harry, spend time with him, but child-rearing is seen as more a mother thing than a father thing. The mother is the disciplinarian and the father is the playmate.

Lost Elf wrote:
Agreement Most Definitely.

For one thing, why did she have to make House Elves so ugly? Aaargh!
If they looked like Legolas do you honestly think they would stay "house" elves? I love little Dobby, but I don't think he turns anyone on the way Legolas can, if you get my drift.

-----
To return to the original topic: I actually thought the opposite. I always wondered why James got more attention than Lily. Reading DH answered some of that. If we'd known about Snape and Lily early on it would change the story entirely. To me, Lily was always a mystery. We knew she was Petunia's sister, Muggleborn, had green eyes and red hair, good at potions, a favorite of Slughorn's, but that's a drop in the bucket to what we knew about James. We met James's friends. They talked about James. Teachers talked about James (scene in the Three Broomsticks). They didn't talk about Lily. Of course, she wasn't a troublemaker so they didn't have as much interesting stories. The good kids don't always stick in the memory like the troublemakers do.


Last edited by gapeach1004 on Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Laurelluin



Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 574
Location: Puget Sound

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: :? Was James really jobless? :? Reply with quote

Do we actually know that James didn't have a job outside of the Order of the Phoenix? I know we see that he has a good amount of inherited wealth to pass on to Harry. I know that Vernon Dursley tells his sister, Marge, that James Potter hadn't got a job. But do we know that was the truth? We know that Vernon Dursley is perfectly willing to make up stories to cover up the truth about Harry being "odd" as he puts it. He tells everyone that Harry is going to St.Brutus' academy for incurably criminal boys, right? He can't go about telling his Muggle relatives that Harry is going to a school of witchcraft and wizardry.

So what if the truth was that James had some sort of Wizarding job that Vernon and Petunia couldn't possibly even understand, much less try to explain to other Muggles? If James was part of the Accidental Magic Reversal squad, or something, how would the Dursleys tell people what Harry's father's job was without breaking the Statutes of Secrecy? Or if James was an Obliviator, or even an Auror?

Now of course they could have made something up, maybe something similar to the truth, such as if James was an Auror they could say he was a detective or a policeman. But would they want to? They prefer to denigrate Harry's parents in every way possible; they never offer any sort of complimentary or even neutral information about James and Lily Potter. They only ever insult them and tarnish their reputation in the eyes of Harry and everyone else. So why would they make anything up about James having a good Muggle job, even if in truth he did have a good wizarding job? Wouldn't the Dursleys rather bash James Potter for being an unemployed layabout--even if he really wasn't any such thing--than say anything good about him? Question

Does anyone else in the books ever say anything about James having a job, or not having a job, or leaving a job to take Lily and Harry into hiding? Did JKR say in some interview that James hadn't got a job? Or does everyone just assume that what Vernon Dursley said about the brother-in-law he hated was true, just because it's never contradicted? Vernon is shown to lie about Harry and Harry's parents not just once but many times. Why do we assume that what he told Marge about James being unemployed is true?
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Hedwig



Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: :? Was James really jobless? :? Reply with quote

Laurelluin wrote:
Do we actually know that James didn't have a job outside of the Order of the Phoenix?

You're right, we don't. He may or may not have. He may have just lived off the fortune his parents left him. Maybe he was looking around when he had the time after what he did for the Order. But being so rich, he didn't really have to work (like we don't know if Lucius had a job, do we? We know he's a member of the governing council or whatever it's called that oversees Hogwarts, but that's not really a job.)

Plus, don't forget, James and Lily were still very young, barely out of school, and very busy. Maybe he was waiting for the war to be over to start looking. Or for Harry to be a bit older. He certainly was a great father to Harry, playing with him, holding him, etc.

At any rate, of course we can't just go with what Vernon says. But I don't see it as important to the story.

We're straying off the topic of favoritism though. But I guess that's OK, these are not the first posts that do. bleh
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