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Sexual Harassment
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UnMask



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:27 pm    Post subject: Clumsy Flirting Reply with quote

If "Clumsy Flirting" were an offense, I'd be spending the rest of my life in prison. super grin
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inkling7
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject: Flirting Reply with quote

Flirting or making a pass so to speak is OK but if the other person indicates they are not interested then it should stop immediately as it could be making them feel uncomfortable..... it should never involve groping body parts or kissing without consent or even making lewd remarks etc.
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Wildflower



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:18 am    Post subject: It’s a joke! Reply with quote

Inkling, I believe in this case UnMask is making a light-hearted joke, laughing at himself and implying that he is clumsy at flirting verbally. It is not to be taken seriously. He may have failings, but a tendency to sexual harassment is not one of them. wink I don’t think clumsy touching or groping was in his mind at all.
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Angelina



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:59 am    Post subject: Re: Clumsy Flirting Reply with quote

UnMask wrote:
If "Clumsy Flirting" were an offense, I'd be spending the rest of my life in prison. super grin

So what exactly are you guilty of, UnMask? What have you done that warrants a jail sentence? Question bleh
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inkling7
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:07 pm    Post subject: Clumsy Flirting Reply with quote

I know that Wildflower I was stating what in my opinion and that of many others what is OK and when it should stop... I thought Unmask was thinking what a lot of people think that some accusations might have gone too far and simple flirting was an offence which I don’t think it is if it stops when the other party indicates they are not interested. I can’t imagine Unmask making any unwanted advances to anyone but maybe his pathetic attempts when young making flattering remarks were awkward or a bit too cheesy...lol super grin
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murat



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:34 pm    Post subject: French Women & Liam Neeson vs #MeToo Movement Reply with quote

murat wrote:
Some French Women Condemn the #MeToo Movement

Actress Catherine Deneuve and some 100 other French women have criticized the #MeToo and #ExposeYourPig movements in the name of men’s “freedom to pester” which they claim is essential to “sexual freedom” — a stance that has sparked debate.

Apparently, Liam Neeson would tend to agree.

Liam Neeson: ‘Bit of a Witch Hunt’ in #MeToo Movement
The actor triggers outrage by defending Dustin Hoffman against sexual misconduct claims.

Actor Liam Neeson on Friday expressed support for the “MeToo” movement but said there’s a “bit of a witch hunt” going on along with it. Speaking to Irish broadcaster RTE on the Late Late Show, Neeson said the anti-harassment campaign sparked by the Harvey Weinstein scandal is “healthy,” but he quickly triggered outrage by defending some of the men accused of inappropriate behavior. “There’s some people, famous people, being suddenly accused of touching some girl’s knee or something and suddenly they’re being dropped from their program,” Neeson said. He cited U.S. radio presenter and writer Garrison Keillor as an example, saying he’d been “dropped” by Minnesota Public Radio for touching a woman’s bare back while trying to comfort her. MPR’s parent company said Keillor was fired after “multiple allegations” over a long period of time. Neeson also said he was “on the fence” about sexual misconduct allegations against Dustin Hoffman. “I'm not saying I've done similar things to what he did—apparently he touched some girls’ breasts—but it’s childhood stuff,” he said.

https://apnews.com/4ac64c7334db423f842692587c011974
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RiderofRohan



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject: Catherine Deneuve Turns on #MeToo Reply with quote

Catherine Deneuve, Signatory of the ‘Manifesto of the 343 Sluts’, Turns on #MeToo
“Will you please ask Catherine Deneuve and those older French women what in the world they’re thinking?” Tatum O'Neal asked.
Dana Kennedy

NICE, France—The outraged text I got from my friend, the actress Tatum O’Neal, in the United States last week after the French daily Le Monde published a screed by 100 French women—including 74-year-old actress Catherine Deneuve—attacking the #MeToo movement as puritanical, totalitarian and anti-men summed up many reactions both in France and abroad.

“Will you please ask Catherine Deneuve and those older French women what in the world they’re thinking?” O’Neal asked. “Why are they doing this?”

At first the official backlash out of Paris was fierce, notably by a group of mostly younger militant French feminists led by Caroline de Haas, 37, who published their own statement furiously repudiating Deneuve’s squad just one day later on the site of the France Info radio station.

De Haas denied some claims that Deneuve’s letter represents a pushback to the American-led #MeToo movement and trendy millennial sexual mores.

“We reacted right away because we had to,” de Haas told The Daily Beast.

“On one hand it’s not surprising,” she said. “Whenever a movement takes even a small step forward, there are always those who say it’s gone to an extreme. Still, the fact that this happened in France feels so shameful to us. It’s an international shame.”

In Nice, the half-French, half-American co-founder of MeToo France, called Deneuve “disgraceful.” “She is ridiculously out of touch with what average women endure in France and around the world,” said Carole R. Davis. "This shows a callous lack of knowledge of the pressing issues we face and she exhibits such an empathy-challenged position, I can only think that she might be suffering from dementia.”

Mostly forgotten in France and elsewhere last week was the fact that Deneuve was once considered a feminist icon in France for her signature on another public statement, the so-called “Manifesto of the 343 Sluts” published in 1971.

The manifesto appeared in the weekly news magazine Le Nouvel Observateur and carried much more of a risk for Deneuve and the 342 other female signatories, including Simone de Beauvoir, than anything contained in Le Monde last week. Each admitted to having an abortion at the time when it was illegal and they could have been criminally prosecuted. The manifesto got the “sluts” diss when French commentators scorned the signatories, asking, “Who would have gotten these ‘sluts’ pregnant?”

Deneuve, at 28 and at the peak of her career, might have been blacklisted permanently. Instead, 331 doctors signed a declaration in support of the manifesto two years later. In 1975, abortion was decriminalized in France.

Apples and oranges, according to de Haas when asked about it by The Daily Beast. “Deneuve has not been a supporter of feminism in recent years,” she said. “Look at how she supported [Roman] Polanski. You can be pro-abortion yet against feminism—at least here.”

So why did the first big backlash to #MeToo, which some are casting as a clash between hip, young third-wave feminists and allegedly out-of-touch, needlessly provocative, possibly senile second-wave feminists, happen in France?

Read more:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/catherine-deneuve-signatory-of-the-manifesto-of-the-343-sluts-turns-on-metoo?via=newsletter&source=Weekend
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RiderofRohan



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject: Catherine Deneuve Tells #MeToo Women to Grow Up Reply with quote

Catherine Deneuve and Crew Tell #MeToo Women to Grow Up … Really?
An open letter signed by the iconic actress and others in France rails against the #MeToo social media campaign—and, from a position of privilege, misses the point.
Erin Zaleski

PARIS—She set thousands of hearts aflutter as a beautiful and bored housewife-turned-prostitute in the 1967 film Belle de Jour, but today iconic French actress Catherine Deneuve had pulses racing and blood pressure rising for an entirely different reason.

More than 50 years after her performance in the Luis Buñuel classic, Deneuve is dominating headlines and blowing up the internet after publicly denouncing the #MeToo movement.

In an open letter published in the French daily Le Monde on Tuesday, Deneuve and some 100 other prominent female entertainers, writers, and academics railed against the #MeToo social media campaign and its French equivalent #Balancetonporc (Expose the pig) accusing them of unleashing a “puritanical... wave of purification” and likening the protests to a “witch-hunt.”

“Rape is a crime but insistent or awkward flirting is not, nor is gallantry a macho aggression,” the letter read. “Men have been punished summarily, forced out of their jobs when all they did was touch someone's knee or try to steal a kiss.”

Not only should men be “free to hit on women,” Deneuve and others argue, but the man-hating mentality wrought by the #MeToo movement poses a threat to sexual liberty.

“Instead of helping women, this frenzy to send these [male chauvinist] ‘pigs’ to the abattoir actually helps the enemies of sexual liberty—religious extremists and the worst sort of reactionaries,” the signatories said.

“Men, for their part, are called on to embrace their guilt and rack their brains for ‘inappropriate behavior’ that they engaged in 10, 20 or 30 years earlier, and for which they must now repent. These public confessions, and the foray into the private sphere of self-proclaimed prosecutors, have led to a climate of totalitarian society.”

For anyone who has followed the Weinstein saga, and the subsequent #MeToo phenomenon, as well as the myriad lurid stories of sexual abuse and harassment in Hollywood and elsewhere over the past few months, Deneuve and her creative cohorts seem almost comically out of touch. After all, the allegations against Weinstein and other entertainment and media heavyweights don’t simply pertain to sex, but also amount to exploitation and a gross abuse of power.

Moreover, the term “witch-hunt” seems all the more puzzling. As the novelist and feminist Van Badham points out in The Guardian, in Puritan New England, home to the infamous Salem Witch Trials, powerful local governments and religious agencies largely targeted vulnerable and disadvantaged women. By contrast, the Weinstein saga has embodied the flip side of Salem with the victims denouncing the perpetrators—powerful, predatory men who had spent years, even decades using their power and status as a means of sexual coercion. Harvey Weinstein and his ilk, vulnerable and disadvantaged? Really?

The most striking aspect of the letter, however, goes beyond its provocative posturing and questionable metaphors. It’s a last gasp of sorts—a cry from the old guard (Deneuve, widely seen as a French cultural icon, is 73) that fears that movements like #MeToo and #Balancetonporc are a threat to both liberty (sexual and otherwise) and to a long tradition of seduction in France.

Quote:
“Men should be ‘free to hit on women,’ Deneuve and others argue.”

French sexual politics have always differed from those in the U.S., and flirtation and an appreciation for “the art of seduction” are deeply embedded in the culture. For instance, the same crude workplace sexual remark that could get you fired in America might only raise a few eyebrows here. The general attitude toward sexual overtures has traditionally been more lax, and enthusiastic, even aggressive flirtation is an expected and accepted part of daily life—in the subway, at the doctor’s office, and even at the local market. It’s not uncommon to receive unsolicited compliments on the streets or to receive a wink from the local fishmonger. It’s a common part of daily interaction and not taken seriously. Indeed, my own reaction to these kinds of daily advances is usually laughter rather than indignity.

However, as in the U.S., perspectives in France are changing, and Weinstein-esque antics are less likely to be tolerated now than in generations past. The question is where to draw the line. That is, in a country where quotidian flirtation is the norm and seduction (and the freedom to seduce) are as valued as liberté, égalité et fraternité, will cracking down on inappropriate and illegal behavior likewise smother harmless teasing between the sexes? When does a playful remark on the street become genuine harassment?

The country is in the midst of addressing these issues, indicating that attitudes are shifting and even the famed French tolerance for sexual shenanigans has its limits.

In October, the country’s gender equality minister, Marlène Schiappa, presented proposals for a new law aimed at cracking down on sexual violence and harassment, including on-the-spot fines for catcalling and “lecherous behavior” in public. But what exactly defines “lecherous behavior” and what comprises “street harassment?” Groping? Asking someone for a date? Telling a passing stranger she is pretty? This has yet to be determined, and it’s easy to imagine Deneuve and the letter’s other signatories growing uneasy over what they perceive to be yet another “totalitarian” encroachment on not just sexual freedom, but on French culture itself.

Read more:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/catherine-deneuve-and-crew-tell-metoo-women-to-grow-up-really
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inkpot



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:56 pm    Post subject: Free to hit Reply with quote

Quote:
“Men should be ‘free to hit on women,’ Deneuve and others argue.”

Women should be free to hit back. With a slap on the face for example. Twisted Evil
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UnMask



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: Free to hit Reply with quote

inkpot wrote:
Quote:
“Men should be ‘free to hit on women,’ Deneuve and others argue.”

Women should be free to hit back. With a slap on the face for example. Twisted Evil

Correct, Inkpot...

Now let me get some ice.... (Sarc)
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